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UBCS Gibbs

Q-bald

Admin

#CW!!ZERO

Tinman

Chief

ATLAS

11 posters

Bio BB's fact or fiction?

ATLAS: Posts : 308
Join date : 2009-01-12
Age : 41
Location : Newnan GA

Post n°1

Bio BB's fact or fiction?

ATLAS 11.02.09 8:17

Let me start this off by saying that I am an EXTREME skeptic. When I got home from the Vineyard game this weekend I had several Bio bb's left, so my roomate and I decided to see exactly how biodegratable these bb's are. Since then we have subjected both biodegratable bb's and the standard "never go away" bb's to verious tempuratures of water(the universal solvent). While we have changed the water several times, the bb's have been soaking continously since Saterday evening (with the exception of the measuring). There has been no change. All of the 15 bb's still weigh the same and the standard deviation in size is still minimal(same as original measurements). The only forseeable diference in the way the two of these react to water is that the bio bb's feel extremely slimey when they are wet, where as the standard bb's just feel like wet plastic. we are going to continue soaking the bb's for the next week or so just to see if it is a delayed reaction. Our next step will be to break all of the bb's in half and continue soaking them. If anyone knows another test that we can do that would get different reactions from these two types of bb's supporting biodegration please let me know.

Last edited by ATLAS on 11.03.09 11:41; edited 3 times in total

Chief: Posts : 237
Join date : 2009-01-16
Location : Newnan

Post n°2

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Chief 11.02.09 8:30

The claim for the TSD BIO 180's is that within 180 days of exposure to sun, soil, and water, they are supposed to break down. I have not tested this though. It would be awesome if you could do a 180 day sun, soil, and water test and see how it comes out! There's a planter on our deck that I'll put a few bio bb's in today and mark it on the calendar. If you do the same, we will hopefully have the same results.

I also have some G&G and some Excel Bio's that I can test too. It's funny on one web site for the G&G Bio's it claims, "Ant's love 'em!" I guess that's why they have a picture of an ant on the front?!?!?!

"The world is waiting to know! Are we wasting our money or not!" Smile

Smile

Tinman: Posts : 865
Join date : 2009-01-13
Location : Newnan, GA

Post n°3

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Tinman 11.02.09 8:49

Chief wrote:The claim for the TSD BIO 180's is that within 180 days of exposure to sun, soil, and water, they are supposed to break down. I have not tested this though. It would be awesome if you could do a 180 day sun, soil, and water test and see how it comes out! There's a planter on our deck that I'll put a few bio bb's in today and mark it on the calendar. If you do the same, we will hopefully have the same results.

I also have some G&G and some Excel Bio's that I can test too. It's funny on one web site for the G&G Bio's it claims, "Ant's love 'em!" I guess that's why they have a picture of an ant on the front?!?!?!

"The world is waiting to know! Are we wasting our money or not!"

Cheif is, of course, dead on the money as usual. They claim that all three factors need to be present in order for the breakdown to occur as predicted.
Look forward to hearing the results but I am sure, with my short attention span, I will have forgotten about it loooooong before then! Rolling Eyes

Rolling Eyes

ATLAS: Posts : 308
Join date : 2009-01-12
Age : 41
Location : Newnan GA

Post n°4

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

ATLAS 11.02.09 9:05

I will stat the experiment over again this evening. I will subject some to the sun/water/soil treatment, and leave all of the water test bb's for the same time period. We should have results by 8/11/09.

Chief: Posts : 237
Join date : 2009-01-16
Location : Newnan

Post n°5

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Chief 11.02.09 10:15

The bb's have been planted! Excel BIO .20, TSD BIO .20, Spartan Javelin BIO .20, and G&G BIO .28's. 8/11/09 is the date. If I remember that long! Smile

Smile

ATLAS: Posts : 308
Join date : 2009-01-12
Age : 41
Location : Newnan GA

Post n°6

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

ATLAS 11.02.09 11:44

Chief wrote:The bb's have been planted! Excel BIO .20, TSD BIO .20, Spartan Javelin BIO .20, and G&G BIO .28's. 8/11/09 is the date. If I remember that long!

that is why I posted the date. Not sure what brand bio's i have, they are whatever they were selling on saturday

Last edited by ATLAS on 11.02.09 15:55; edited 1 time in total

Chief: Posts : 237
Join date : 2009-01-16
Location : Newnan

Post n°7

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Chief 11.02.09 14:13

ATLAS wrote:

Chief wrote:The bb's have been planted! Excel BIO .20, TSD BIO .20, Spartan Javelin BIO .20, and G&G BIO .28's. 8/11/09 is the date. If I remember that long!

that is why I posted the date. Not sure what brand bio's i have, they are whatever they were selling on saterday

Those are TSD BIO 180's

Tinman: Posts : 865
Join date : 2009-01-13
Location : Newnan, GA

Post n°8

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Tinman 11.02.09 14:55

[quote="ATLAS]whatever they were selling on saturday[/quote]
Sad

Sad

He just cannot spell! Sad

Sad

ATLAS: Posts : 308
Join date : 2009-01-12
Age : 41
Location : Newnan GA

Post n°9

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

ATLAS 16.02.09 15:52

In doing my dishes this morning my girlfriend decided to throw out my bio bb experiment. God love her for doing the dishes but i am going to have start over again tonight.

#CW!!ZERO: Posts : 1268
Join date : 2009-01-04
Age : 33
Location : Fayetteville, Georgia

Post n°10

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

#CW!!ZERO 17.02.09 2:52

ATLAS wrote:In doing my dishes this morning my girlfriend decided to throw out my bio bb experiment. God love her for doing the dishes but i am going to have start over again tonight.

Bummer, but i to have tried putting some bio bb's in water and i let it go about 2 weeks before giving up, but 180 days is a long time, wonder if will actually work???

Tinman: Posts : 865
Join date : 2009-01-13
Location : Newnan, GA

Post n°11

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Tinman 17.02.09 7:00

Uncovered, the water will evaporate...covered, well, that'll be some NASTY water and will pass for a mold experiment . . . definitely none of us married guys would be able to convince our better half that it oughta be on the kitchen counter! affraid

affraid

ATLAS: Posts : 308
Join date : 2009-01-12
Age : 41
Location : Newnan GA

Post n°12

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

ATLAS 17.02.09 7:58

Tinman wrote:Uncovered, the water will evaporate...covered, well, that'll be some NASTY water and will pass for a mold experiment . . . definitely none of us married guys would be able to convince our better half that it oughta be on the kitchen counter!

Kitchen table! Regardless, I restarted the experiment.

Tinman: Posts : 865
Join date : 2009-01-13
Location : Newnan, GA

Post n°13

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Tinman 17.02.09 8:07

ATLAS wrote:Kitchen table! Regardless, I restarted the experiment.

Wow . . . that makes it SOOOOOO much more appetizing!

ATLAS: Posts : 308
Join date : 2009-01-12
Age : 41
Location : Newnan GA

Post n°14

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

ATLAS 11.03.09 11:43

it has been a month(a little less for my experament). Anybody seeing any change in their planted bio's? mine don't seem to be doing anything.

Admin: Admin; Posts : 2096
Join date : 2008-12-30
Location : Acworth

Post n°15

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Admin 11.03.09 12:01

I'm going to start a little experiment with Boval BB's. Suppossedly, they're supposed to be the most biodegradeable BB out there.

Q-bald: Posts : 855
Join date : 2009-02-10
Age : 54
Location : Newnan Ga

Post n°16

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Q-bald 11.03.09 12:18

It would work well if someone had Uv light to expose the Bio's 24/7
But i dont think anyone will admit to owning Hydroponic lights.........HA HA

UBCS Gibbs: Posts : 192
Join date : 2009-01-06
Age : 35
Location : Milton City

Post n°17

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

UBCS Gibbs 11.03.09 12:57

Q-bald wrote:It would work well if someone had Uv light to expose the Bio's 24/7
But i dont think anyone will admit to owning Hydroponic lights.........HA HA

Nothin illegal about owning them! I might try and put a few bb's in some moist earth with my light on it. See if they biodegrade.

Admin: Admin; Posts : 2096
Join date : 2008-12-30
Location : Acworth

Post n°18

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Admin 11.03.09 16:04

Q-bald wrote:It would work well if someone had Uv light to expose the Bio's 24/7
But i dont think anyone will admit to owning Hydroponic lights.........HA HA

Maybe somebody has a terrarium?

Chief: Posts : 237
Join date : 2009-01-16
Location : Newnan

Post n°19

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Chief 24.03.09 16:23

ATLAS wrote:it has been a month(a little less for my experament). Anybody seeing any change in their planted bio's? mine don't seem to be doing anything.

I'm not going to pick them up, but just looking at them I don't see any change.

Rhino: Posts : 1580
Join date : 2008-12-31
Age : 46
Location : The Big Dime (Tenn.)

Post n°20

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Rhino 02.04.09 23:01

The G&G bag says that they take 1.2 years to bio. In soil, sun, and water. They have gotten them to break down in as little as 60 days in a lab! so be prepared to be in for the long haul. I can tell you I DO NOT believe in bios. I have shot tens of thousands of rounds in my back yard and I dont see any of them anymore. Hell everything will biodegrade with time, Except maybe diamonds. Think about if you put a peice of metal out in your yard and I would be willing to bet after a few thousands years it wouldnt be there!

WPeake23 [SOTHG]

WPeake23 [SOTHG]: Posts : 546
Join date : 2009-02-23
Age : 28
Location : Marietta

Post n°21

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

WPeake23 [SOTHG] 23.04.09 13:37

I am doing this with some Golden Ball .25 Bios. I have ben doing it for maybe 3 weeks. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. So far there is really no change.

WPeake23 [SOTHG]

WPeake23 [SOTHG]: Posts : 546
Join date : 2009-02-23
Age : 28
Location : Marietta

Post n°22

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

WPeake23 [SOTHG] 23.04.09 13:53

I just went out side to check my expierement, only to find that my lab puppy got it. There is no telling where it is now. So i will be starting over again. I will do 1 with normal from the ground soil, and the other using potting mix. With the same bbs as before, Golden Ball .25 Bios.

savoy6: Posts : 312
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 55
Location : Douglasville,GA.

Post n°23

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

savoy6 23.04.09 15:58

bio bb's are BS...always have been...they are simply a marketing ploy that started out west to give the field owners the paintball-esque option of requiring folks to buy "field bb's" ,so they could say that they were running "enforcing" enviromentally friendly games and use that to help market to landowners....
2 years ago i submitted several samples of both bio and non-bio bb's to the corporate R&D labs at my former job...Spartech Plastics,one of the US's leading producers of extruded sheet and rollstock plastics. the results that my friends at the lab sent me back showed that ther was little to NO difference between the bio and non-bio bb's...nothing that would make them more or less bio-degradable.but then that's the same result from more than 5 years ago in Britain when one of the UK airsoft guys had the same sort of mass spectrum analysis done when bios first really hit the market....from the old airsoft retreat forums..

http://www.airsoftretreat.com/oldforums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=89763&SearchTerms=bio,bb's

Excel "Biodegradable" BB Composition Revealed
Every now and again (once a year maybe) someone starts a thread about what exactly BBs are made of. We've heard a lot of stories about starch, plastics etc; I even heard someone professing them to be primarily brick dust! Well, some time back now (at least 6 months ago) I was asked by Steve Banks of Combat South whether I could do some analysis work on Excel biodegradable BBs. Being a Polymer Chemist by trade and having the appropriate tools to do the work I agreed, but I haven't really had the time to carry out the work. Until now. Today I carried out a full spectroscopic analysis and it's had some fairly unexpected results...

Analysis
The sample used was an Excel 0.2g Biodegradable BB, newly delivered from WGC only yesterday. Analysis indicated the BB comprised of the following:

Approx. 40% Polystyrene

A popular, cheap and inert thermoplastic with just the properties required for the job. However there's one glaring problem with using PS, and I just mentioned it… it’s inert. Which means it’s not biodegradable. In fact, PS is about as bad as you can get for biodegradability. There’s simply no data available on how long it takes because we haven’t seen any degrade yet, and this stuff’s been around since 1930. Surprising… n’est pas? Therefore common talk of UV radiation or water degrading the BBs is utter nonsense…

Approx. 60% Finely Dispersed Barium Sulphate

I thought the filler material was going to be either starch (a possible biodegradable element) or calcium carbonate (cheap and abundant) but I stand corrected. So... why Barium Sulphate?

The easy answer is mass. A standard 6mm BB composed of polystyrene weighs significantly less than 0.2g, therefore some weighting is required to ensure the BB has sufficient energy to travel a reasonable distance (kinetic energy obviously being related to both mass and velocity; see your GCSE physics book for more details). Barium is a remarkably heavy element (atomic mass of 137.3 g/mol) and a small amount of the sulphate will provide the desired weight increase, whereas the calcium carbonate or starch would not.

Structure?
There’s been a lot of debate as to the structure of the BBs themselves, and up to now it’s been thought that they’re a “filler” core encapsulated with plastic. I can confirm however that this is not the case. Under the microscope there appears to be a homogenous mix of filler and polymer throughout the entire BB.

Conclusion
Although the chemical components of the BB are absolutely harmless (PS is used in everything, and Barium Sulphate is the main ingredient in the infamous “barium meal” eaten before undergoing x-ray of the digestive tract) there is not a chance in hell that the Excel 0.2g “biodegradable” BBs are ever going to biodegrade. Not ever. Or at least not while you and I are alive. I can only assume that, given the Barium Sulphate content of the BB, the Japanese can market these things as “biodegradable” by exploiting some kind of legal loophole i.e. a product with greater that 50% mineral/biodegradable matter can be labelled as such.

Therefore next time you’re facing up against the opposing force with a full hi-cap remember that every shot you make is going to litter the planet for a long, long time. Short controlled bursts people… short controlled bursts…

our test's also cfound that the bb's ,even mauri and excel contain some of the lowest quality styrene they had ever seen..
at this point i don't know why this topis always crops up on alot of forums... Rolling Eyes

Rolling Eyes

Twitch: Posts : 1406
Join date : 2009-02-12
Age : 34

Post n°24

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

Twitch 17.07.09 15:06

I can has status update?

lol.

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Post n°25

Re: Bio BB's fact or fiction?

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