Spend $500 how?

Aggressor wrote:Heres what I have to say about the "custom" JG. You can buy a KWA M4, and have it last and perform, and THEN add externals onto it. You can't really do the other way around. ....

Get a simple, barebones KWA M4, and build from there. Try introducing your kid to the "pimpmygun" program. If you google "pimpmygun" you will find a link to a program that can be easily used to prospect a custom weapon you want (program was designed by an airsoft player). Have your kid get on the program, load up a stock M4, and have him customize it himself. Almost priomise he will spend a few hours making cool looking weapons, even goofy ones just to see how funny he can make a gun look Once he has made the M4 he wants, look up the parts online. See how much it would cost to do that to a KWA M4. In the end, I would take him to AirDog. Have him hold the JGs and the other brands, then have him hold the KWA. He will be able to feel the quality difference just holding it. And yes, AirDog will allow you to go hands on with their merchandise.

Also, you can post website names and such.

Hey sorry for the delay. Spent the day yesterday with my daughter. Love that she's almost 24 and would rather spend her off day with the 'old man' than getting 'faced' (like so many do). Doesn't hurt that we went and toasted off a few rounds.

Hey I *love* the idea of running to AirDog and having a 'hands on' session. This is my biggest problem with his shopping ONLY on airsoftmegastore.com. Not being able to put hands on anything. SURE if you know what you want, you've seen it elsewhere and the price REALLY justifies shopping online then fine. But I've found (say with this JG for instance) that local stores are in the same pricepoint ($150 for the bare gun) as airsoftmegastore.

As I mentioned, he's more like "I want everything all at once". Why I have NO FREAKING IDEA!!! It's not like we/he wouldn't get his entire loadout list fairly soon anyhow. Would more likely than not outfit the gun RE holosight, grip, light, etc. then and there no matter what.

I'm going to see if I can't get him to "pimpmygun" for snits-n-giggles and see what happens.

RedG35 wrote:
Would more likely than not outfit the gun RE holosight, grip, light, etc. then and there no matter what.

Airdog has all of this that he can add to a standard m4, they also have like all of the magpul furniture if that is the route that he wants to go...

but yeah if you go in, airdog will let you hold the guns and see what fits your style...


here is the airdog website... http://airdogshop.com/

Rhino wrote:please dont "WASTE" your money on a JG! You WILL NOT be happy in the long run. I see it all the time.

Rhino,
OK, this is what I’m picking up on. The JG isn’t the worst thing he could do considering it's upgrade path is pretty much straight up Tokyo Marui (clone).

BUT... considering performance factors, possible internals that are a wear issue, (not limited to the gear set, up to and including bearings, seals, hop-up, piston, barrel and GOD KNOWS what else) then that is where the issue is.

If he is shooting on a regular basis there is a good chance that inside (how many months) he ends up spending (how much on upgrades) to keep the JG at a performance level that would be on-par with the KWA. ESPECIALLY as the KWA’s performance would be good from the beginning, but more importantly the KWA will go (how much longer) without ever having to be opened up for issues that WILL have long ago had to be fixed with the JG. Yes?
Basically, what would the cost(s) be to do said upgrades on the JG?

I’ve looked all over your site but can’t find your hours. Thought we’d ride up but need to know when you’re there. Also, are you where the TSA truck stop was? (Assuming it’s gone… I haven’t been up there in 10 years or so.) I used to spend a TON in there when I owned my towing service back from 85 till 03. Would love to get some hands-on advice.

RedG

surefire pigeon wrote:I'd have to say the new JG G36 are the BEST g36 on the market. If you were looking into getting one, they are GREAT!

SurefirePigeon,

You have spent time with the JG's? What I'm dealing with is he's like "but you are what you carry, when you walk on the field", and I'm saying "then are you sure the JG is something that you won't get mad about when someone tells you you should have gotten a REAL gun?".
Never figured I'd be the one wanting to spend MORE not less!!!

RedG35 wrote:

Rhino wrote:please dont "WASTE" your money on a JG! You WILL NOT be happy in the long run. I see it all the time.

Rhino,
OK, this is what I’m picking up on. The JG isn’t the worst thing he could do considering it's upgrade path is pretty much straight up Tokyo Marui (clone).

BUT... considering performance factors, possible internals that are a wear issue, (not limited to the gear set, up to and including bearings, seals, hop-up, piston, barrel and GOD KNOWS what else) then that is where the issue is.

If he is shooting on a regular basis there is a good chance that inside (how many months) he ends up spending (how much on upgrades) to keep the JG at a performance level that would be on-par with the KWA. ESPECIALLY as the KWA’s performance would be good from the beginning, but more importantly the KWA will go (how much longer) without ever having to be opened up for issues that WILL have long ago had to be fixed with the JG. Yes?
Basically, what would the cost(s) be to do said upgrades on the JG?

I’ve looked all over your site but can’t find your hours. Thought we’d ride up but need to know when you’re there. Also, are you where the TSA truck stop was? (Assuming it’s gone… I haven’t been up there in 10 years or so.) I used to spend a TON in there when I owned my towing service back from 85 till 03. Would love to get some hands-on advice.

RedG

the times for the store are tuesday -saturday 12pm-7pm

airdog has another website... http://airdogairsoft.com/

No the worst thing that he could be considering would be a crossman airsoft gun from walmart... jg's would be better than that, but they aren't made to last...
and you can run a stock kwa for a long time without any trouble... if you take care of it...
and jg guns would have to have a heck of a lot of upgrades to make them any good/ and last long... but Rhino can tell you more about this than i can

Blaze wrote:Check out the "Show us your guns" thread and you will see how many Taiwan guns(KWA,G&G) are on there and more realistic

Blaze,
Thanks for the heads up! Haven't had time to even look over there yet. Trying to get ahead of the ball on this thing before the kid and his mother go out and do this deal.

Thx,
RedG

Hours are 12-7 Tues-Sat

First off a JG gun will either be plastic or "Pot" metal, 2nd I guarantee the gear box shell will break in one of 2 spots either the front end or the post that keeps the trigger contact in place. Next ZERO of the internals are up to par with a KWA, ICS, or G&G. So if you want to know how much it will cost to replace that stuff here it is.

Hardened Steel Gears ~42
Piston ~25
Piston head ~16
Spring guide ~20
bushing ~20
hop up bucking ~6
when the gear box fails ~50-75
labor ~50

The KWA gear box IS the best gear box shell on the market! Next best is Modify Torus price of the Torus is 70.00. KWA guns are made of Nylon fiber, Aluminum or Magnesium NO pot metal or plastic! G&G is Nylon fiber or Magnesium. They use hardened steel gears not zinc alloy (pot metal) like the china gun.

A JG will never feel like or perform like a KWA unless you turn your JG into a KWA or spend a boat load of cash. Just for example a good quality metal body will cost you at least $100.00

You can find videos of G&G nylon fiber guns being dropped for 10ft multiple times and still work. Try that with a plastic or pot metal china gun. IT WILL BE BROKE.

We use to use JG G36c's as rental guns but replaced them all with G&G M4's because we got tired of the JG's being broken and not working. The G&G's have been on the field for 2 years and get used and abused every week and keep going. We haven't had one broken gear box, not one broken gear, not one broken piston, not one stripped pinion gear, not one broken piston head, not one broken spring, not one broken externally! PERIOD!!!! Try that with a JG! The only parts I have EVER replaced on our rentals are a few piston head O-rings, and a few trigger return springs. These guns have had 100,000's of thousands of rounds shot through them if not over millions.

Twitch wrote:Hope this helps some.

Twitch,
“Hope this helps some.”

Are you KIDDING ME? OMG at the info! ROTFLMAO

Where do I start; Leesee… I’ve got it as far as FPS goes. He didn’t fall for ‘faster is better’ so that’s not an issue. He was thinking I wanted to lean towards a ‘fast’ gun and because it would take Li-Po it automatically made it faster. Had to explain the difference between voltage and mAh as it relates to how long the battery lasts vs how fast it’ll turn the motor. Actually he’s been shooting for a while with an el’cheapo Dick’s Sporting Goods AR that his sister picked up for him when she worked there. After all her discounts it was like 80 bucks so no biggie. (crappy specs though at 275fps and 600rpm)

So, the KWA and prices… see some scary she-ite there. After some looking, the KM4 SR10, or the KM4 RIS would be the contenders. The RIS would be the deal if it can be fitted as a flattop, (can’t tell from the photos).

The price on the mags are high when compared to my normal PMags but then again, they are only 30 rounds each. And on the pricing of externals, yep I found that out a long time ago when trying to outfit my AR’s. Lots of stuff out there (eBay and such) that sellers claim are the real deal, yet only airsoft stuff in disguise.

Great info on Condor, Eagle and TAG. I would have never known where to look first on that front. Dude showed me a mask that he wants and I was thinking SURE it looks fine if it’s like 20 degrees outside. Wasn’t vented for crap! (black skull face) Funny though about the whole “made in China” thing. I mean you’ve seen that show Shark Tank, where the one guy, no matter WHAT the idea, is always telling the people that the first thing he would do is take production to China! Give me a friggin’ break!!! Several people have fought him tooth and nail on it in order to be able to put a “made in America” label on their products. All however he said he wasn’t interested in for just that reason. Dipwad.

You know… I hadn’t even thought about the camo pattern, although I have some favorite of my own. Seems the boy hasn’t put too much into it either, other than a total blackout theme. Great food for thought.

We’re 5x5 on the eye pro! Especially as he wears glasses and contacts. On the boots however he’s destined to learn a <CENSORED>’ lesson there I fear.

Later,
RedG

NJSC wrote:Now I'm going to interject a little bit here. Ask your son what he wants out of his airsoft experience. Is he looking to just do some back yard can shooting? Or is he looking to get fully involved with weekend long OP's? Next is what style of play is he going to be wanting? Does he want to be constantly in the fray and pushing up the front lines? Or does he want to try and pick people off from a concealed "distance?" Does he want to mainly play in CQB environments? Or is he looking at full on outdoors? It's easy to get excited by the way a gun looks, but if it's designed for a CQB role and he wants to hide in the bushes and protect a base then he's starting off at a disadvantage.
Here is my suggestion. Play first with a rental gun. This is of course assuming that he's not already been playing. Meet some people and see what he likes.
My personal preference is to hang back and play defense with a rifle with good distance, but after I joined a team that is an "assault style" team I quickly sold my 9lb SR25 and got a very light G&G GR16 and had a very high ROF Mp5 for a while.
You can even tag along with a rented gun and see if you get addicted to a new hobby. Maybe we have the next poopdaddy on our hands?
With all that then figured out then you should start narrowing down what guns would fit his playing style and have a much better airsoft experience.
He may attend one OP and decide he doesn't like it and wants to go back to RC Trucks.
With all that being said most of these guys know what they are talking about. Give Rhino a call up at the shop and he'll be sure you don't get stuck with junk. He's been inside more gearboxes than probably all of us put together, so he knows his stuff.
Just my $0.02

Hey, I'll take that $0.02 any day my friend.

You have a lot of valid points. (as does everyone so far) Knew it was a good idea to join the forum.

After I ran this by his mom today we got some good answers from him on it. Jesus I know it sounds like we're digging in too deep perhaps, but 1: we have always been very involved with the kids and 2: my son wouldn't tend to make informed decisions, rather "oh this looks good". Like my girl for instance is almost 24 and we hang out all the time, even went shooting yesterday. (FWIW her daily carry in her purse is a SR9C and her "hip" gun is a Kimber Super Carry Pro .45)

Wouldn't come as a surprise here that he's a HUGE gamer all three consoles and of course the PC. He's big on "staying in the fray" but wants to be workhorse. Moving mags and supplies would be right up his ally. That being said; I've stressed to him that it SUCKS to lug around a 9lb carbine (AKA my Ruger 556) and be up in the mix all day. Then he's young and dumb, works out and runs like it's FUN or something and thinks if it's A: Heavy; B: Full Metal and C: LOADED with crap hanging off of it.... then it's the shizzle!

Oh I don't think there's any danger of him going back to RC trucks. Although what we have around here are some seriously bada$$ custom REVO's. He doesn't like the fact that you can't shoot people with them. (yeah I know I could get an airsoft TANK for him though) NOT

Thanks for the info, great perspective.

Later,
RedG

poopdaddy wrote:
i will tell you go down to airdog
talk to them
you will not see a crap load of guns built by whoever
you will get a nice selection of quality guns
you will find quality in the staff and the products
these guys dont have an airsoft store and play on the side
they play and love airsoft and then a store.
you will get things that 90% of us use,and the other 10% will switch to
poop

Ya' know what poopdaddy? I think we will do just that.
He's invited his buddy (we call him our 2nd son he stays here so much) to come with.
Hear that Rhino? Say Sat morning.

NJSC wrote:You can even tag along with a rented gun and see if you get addicted to a new hobby. Maybe we have the next poopdaddy on our hands?

Almost forgot... There's no danger of me joining in (no matter how much I'd like to) as I've got major back problems. I can see me now, and full of narcotics on one side, flamed out carbon fiber cane on the other and wondering where in the H-E-double-L I can carry my gun. (or is that where did I PUT my gun... can't remember)

jolio1994 wrote:

Man i wish my parents were this cool. He probably doesn't realize how lucky he is.

Oh you are SOOOOOO right! Kids rotten spoiled they are ObiWan. At 18 he should be buying his own. It's not like I didn't pimp him out with an Alpine, Pioneer & Kicker system to the tune of 2K in the 4Runner just a few months ago.

When I was his age of course I lived at home, but paid rent, had a union job, had a 375 hp 302 Ford that would pull the front wheels, a 425 hp 401 Javelin slap stick road racer, and a KZ900. Pizzed my folks of to NO END. My girlfriend (now wife of 35 years) drove a 67 GTO that we ended up selling for a Camaro and buying her a Honda 750 so we could ride together.

When they say "those were the days my friend", sometimes they were REALLY GOOD DAYS.

Later,
RedG35

Rhino wrote:Hours are 12-7 Tues-Sat

First off a JG gun will either be plastic or "Pot" metal, 2nd I guarantee the gear box shell will break in one of 2 spots ....
So if you want to know how much it will cost to replace that stuff here it is.

Hardened Steel Gears ~42
Piston ~25
Piston head ~16
Spring guide ~20
bushing ~20
hop up bucking ~6
when the gear box fails ~50-75
labor ~50

The KWA gear box IS the best gear box shell on the market! Next best is Modify Torus price of the Torus is 70.00. KWA guns are made of Nylon fiber, Aluminum or Magnesium NO pot metal or plastic! G&G is Nylon fiber or Magnesium. They use hardened steel gears not zinc alloy (pot metal) like the china gun.

A JG will never feel like or perform like a KWA unless you turn your JG into a KWA or spend a boat load of cash. Just for example a good quality metal body will cost you at least $100.00

You can find videos of G&G nylon fiber guns being dropped for 10ft multiple times and still work. Try that with a plastic or pot metal china gun. IT WILL BE BROKE.

We use to use JG G36c's as rental guns ....

Rhino,

Thanks for posting that. I fear a lot of people in your place wouldn't. Kudo's my friend.

Must have just looked over the hours thing, found it later. Duh.

Gotta' admit when I first looked at the KWA specs I noticed the 8mm bearings vs 7mm on a bunch of others, if not plastic bushings. Now I don't know from Adam the exact workings of these things but I know bearings and have bought them by the freaking tube for our RC trucks. Bigger (and sealed) was always better.

We've spied some neat guns on your site, unsure of the "in stock" status on them all however. (That's unless the site is totally up to date and if so then I think we have a good idea.)

Figure we'll come up Sat morning. Knowing JW like I do he will never want to leave unless there is a gun in hand.

As a departure from what he's been looking at the ICS CXP seems like a schweet unit. That's got the split gearbox that tilts apart like a typical AR right? Different design for sure. Actually there are several ICS units that might work.

Same thing for the G&G's GR4's (although that front flip-up seems like the first thing that'll break).
And of course everything from the M4A1, to the KM4 RIS, to the SR10 would be where KWA would land at. That SR10 looks a TON like my M4 with the Troy Industries quad rail (albeit mine has a 12" rail).

Oh well, looks like Saturday we'll get out about town and see what we can dig up. Me feels my debit card burning already!!!!!

Geesh it's 2:00 freakin' AM and I'm starving.

Later dude,
RedG

RedG35 wrote:

Rhino wrote:Hours are 12-7 Tues-Sat

First off a JG gun will either be plastic or "Pot" metal, 2nd I guarantee the gear box shell will break in one of 2 spots ....
So if you want to know how much it will cost to replace that stuff here it is.

Hardened Steel Gears ~42
Piston ~25
Piston head ~16
Spring guide ~20
bushing ~20
hop up bucking ~6
when the gear box fails ~50-75
labor ~50

The KWA gear box IS the best gear box shell on the market! Next best is Modify Torus price of the Torus is 70.00. KWA guns are made of Nylon fiber, Aluminum or Magnesium NO pot metal or plastic! G&G is Nylon fiber or Magnesium. They use hardened steel gears not zinc alloy (pot metal) like the china gun.

A JG will never feel like or perform like a KWA unless you turn your JG into a KWA or spend a boat load of cash. Just for example a good quality metal body will cost you at least $100.00

You can find videos of G&G nylon fiber guns being dropped for 10ft multiple times and still work. Try that with a plastic or pot metal china gun. IT WILL BE BROKE.

We use to use JG G36c's as rental guns ....

Rhino,

Thanks for posting that. I fear a lot of people in your place wouldn't. Kudo's my friend.

Must have just looked over the hours thing, found it later. Duh.

Gotta' admit when I first looked at the KWA specs I noticed the 8mm bearings vs 7mm on a bunch of others, if not plastic bushings. Now I don't know from Adam the exact workings of these things but I know bearings and have bought them by the freaking tube for our RC trucks. Bigger (and sealed) was always better.

We've spied some neat guns on your site, unsure of the "in stock" status on them all however. (That's unless the site is totally up to date and if so then I think we have a good idea.)

Figure we'll come up Sat morning. Knowing JW like I do he will never want to leave unless there is a gun in hand.

As a departure from what he's been looking at the ICS CXP seems like a schweet unit. That's got the split gearbox that tilts apart like a typical AR right? Different design for sure. Actually there are several ICS units that might work.

Same thing for the G&G's GR4's (although that front flip-up seems like the first thing that'll break).
And of course everything from the M4A1, to the KM4 RIS, to the SR10 would be where KWA would land at. That SR10 looks a TON like my M4 with the Troy Industries quad rail (albeit mine has a 12" rail).

Oh well, looks like Saturday we'll get out about town and see what we can dig up. Me feels my debit card burning already!!!!!

Geesh it's 2:00 freakin' AM and I'm starving.

Later dude,
RedG

We have a ICS, KWA, coming in Tuesday and the G&G order came in today. If it is out of stock on our online store it is out in our retail store. We do have more products in store than online though.

Wanted to thank everyone for their input on our (first time) quest.

Ended up with a G&G CM16 for my son from Metropolis. His buddy came over with his new gun and it was a do or die situation but worked out well. Would have liked to get hands on a few more however the gun is exactly what he wants/needs for his type of shooting.

Changed out the stock, dropped Magpul furniture on the handguard along with a stubby, 3 hicaps (one Lonex), AIM red dot (on a riser), Madbull Gemtech out front, Tenergy pack, and of course a ton of ammo. (plus the obligitory dumb charger) I've got several smart chargers already, including an ICE unit so at least I didn't have to spring for yet another one. They threw in a 6 day pass which he's looking VERY forward to using. (like on lock-in nights!)

Do need to start building it out a bit, as well as working on the load out so we'll see how that goes.

Wanted to give a shout out to Rhino for the adaptor (wasn't an easy find)! I'm sure we will be seeing you soon and often. I'm feeling I could seriously add a KWA or G&G full metal gun to my collection just because.......

Anyhow, thanks again y'all.

RedG35