THIS IS HUGE, comparing 6.01mm tightbore to a 6.08mm stock barrel/Polishing your barrel for more accuracy.

I will once I have access to my workshop in my basement. I currently live 4 hours away from that... so this will have to wait until the summer.

UBCS Gibbs wrote:I will once I have access to my workshop in my basement. I currently live 4 hours away from that... so this will have to wait until the summer.

Yeah thats fine, just remember when it comes to be summer time, dont forget.

I really don't see any need to test this. The thoery sounds logical enough but it HAS to be a load of crap. Basically this theory is that in a barrel the air will provide a cussion for the bb so that it stays at a constant elivation, and keeps a constant course. that is a very basic way of describing lift theory. A perfectly round bb has no way to create lift at that speed. I very seriously doubt that the bb manages to effect the air pressure on different sides differently, these things have been highly polished. Another problem I have with this is that the air will supposidly resist being seperated by the forward momentum of the bb (creating the cussion), this may work in water (H2O has much higher adhesive properties than O2 and creates a lot more drag, but air will not react this way(drag is the friction caused by air moving across a surface, not resistance to being seperated). the only other argument i can see for this to actually work is that the air pressure behind the bb would be much higher than the air pressure passing the bb (pushing against the bb would create the higher pressure), but air dosent care, weather the bb is perfectly centered in the barrell or riding on the side of the barrel air is going to pass it in the exact same amounts at the exact same pressure.

Lastly, some of you may say that the hopup/back spin adjustments are proof that the bb creats lift, which is partially true, it creats lift by increasing the drag under the bb and decreasing it above the bb. But when the bb is first fired it is traveling way to fast for the back spin to affect its flight path, and if not this would just drive the bb towards the top of the barrel.

The only logical choice in trying to make an airsoft gun more accurate has got to be a barrel with a smaller inner bore!

For the record I do realize that my spelling is horrible but I believe I got my point across.

I guess I am too much the realist . . . hundreds of years of ballistics history let us know that there is only so much you can do with a round projectile in a smoothbore weapon. We have lead and lead alloy pellets for BB guns with rifled barrels where the entire gun sells for MUCH, MUCH more cheaply than most high end airsoft tightbore barrels alone . . . why can there not be a movement toward conical round nose projectile based rifled airsoft sniper guns . . . still 6mm . . . just conical projectiles feeding from a stacked magazine. Provided that FPS limits are enforced like they are with spherical projectiles, the snipe is not going to hurt anyone worse with a round nose conical than with a round nose spherical . . . he'll just be a heck of a lot more accurate.
Just my .02

Ohhh....Atlas....you are right....your spelling IS atrocious, a-t-r-o-c-i-o-u-s, atrocious!

ATLAS wrote:I really don't see any need to test this. The thoery sounds logical enough but it HAS to be a load of crap. Basically this theory is that in a barrel the air will provide a cussion for the bb so that it stays at a constant elivation, and keeps a constant course. that is a very basic way of describing lift theory. A perfectly round bb has no way to create lift at that speed. I very seriously doubt that the bb manages to effect the air pressure on different sides differently, these things have been highly polished. Another problem I have with this is that the air will supposidly resist being seperated by the forward momentum of the bb (creating the cussion), this may work in water (H2O has much higher adhesive properties than O2 and creates a lot more drag, but air will not react this way(drag is the friction caused by air moving across a surface, not resistance to being seperated). the only other argument i can see for this to actually work is that the air pressure behind the bb would be much higher than the air pressure passing the bb (pushing against the bb would create the higher pressure), but air dosent care, weather the bb is perfectly centered in the barrell or riding on the side of the barrel air is going to pass it in the exact same amounts at the exact same pressure.

Lastly, some of you may say that the hopup/back spin adjustments are proof that the bb creats lift, which is partially true, it creats lift by increasing the drag under the bb and decreasing it above the bb. But when the bb is first fired it is traveling way to fast for the back spin to affect its flight path, and if not this would just drive the bb towards the top of the barrel.

The only logical choice in trying to make an airsoft gun more accurate has got to be a barrel with a smaller inner bore!

For the record I do realize that my spelling is horrible but I believe I got my point across.

Well I actually just repolished my 6.01 and 6.08 yesterday and at 250 feet I was getting body shots 4/5 times with the 6.08 and only 1/5 times with the DB customs, I mean believe what you want but once I order my 6.00mm EDGI ported barrel I will be posting my final results

#CW!!ZERO wrote:Well I actually just repolished my 6.01 and 6.08 yesterday and at 250 feet I was getting body shots 4/5 times with the 6.08 and only 1/5 times with the DB customs, I mean believe what you want but once I order my 6.00mm EDGI ported barrel I will be posting my final results

I would be more inclined to believe that the difference is related more to airseal/hopup alignment differences for the different barrels than with the magical air cushion. I would be interested to see what the fps difference is for those two barrels.

As far as the paint covered bb test for the airsoft gun, I don't see this being possible. cutting a barrel that small in half long ways would cause a lot of debris flying around inside that tiny barrel, and I would imagine that the air moving past the bb would spray off some of the paint so you could never be 100% sure that your results were correct unless you happen to have fiber optic camera/light set smaller that 6mm. I do see this test possible with a paintball gun provide that the fps/barrel spacing/bb weight were all relatively the same given the weight and size differences and would imagine that if the theory actually worked you would have to see the results there as identifiable impact marks and not just splatter.

Results beat out scientific theory every time. If by some unforeseen circumstance you can get a 6.08 to fire more accurately than a tight bore, I would use it!

ATLAS wrote:

#CW!!ZERO wrote:Well I actually just repolished my 6.01 and 6.08 yesterday and at 250 feet I was getting body shots 4/5 times with the 6.08 and only 1/5 times with the DB customs, I mean believe what you want but once I order my 6.00mm EDGI ported barrel I will be posting my final results

I would be more inclined to believe that the difference is related more to airseal/hopup alignment differences for the different barrels than with the magical air cushion. I would be interested to see what the fps difference is for those two barrels.

As far as the paint covered bb test for the airsoft gun, I don't see this being possible. cutting a barrel that small in half long ways would cause a lot of debris flying around inside that tiny barrel, and I would imagine that the air moving past the bb would spray off some of the paint so you could never be 100% sure that your results were correct unless you happen to have fiber optic camera/light set smaller that 6mm. I do see this test possible with a paintball gun provide that the fps/barrel spacing/bb weight were all relatively the same given the weight and size differences and would imagine that if the theory actually worked you would have to see the results there as identifiable impact marks and not just splatter.

Results beat out scientific theory every time. If by some unforeseen circumstance you can get a 6.08 to fire more accurately than a tight bore, I would use it!

Oh I do, no question, Im just saying if you have a tightbore and the stock barrel try out the polish thing and test your accuracy, just see what happens.

exactly how do you polish it, and with what i need to try this

{PWNY} RED wrote:exactly how do you polish it, and with what i need to try this

I will actually at the Swap Meet game this weekend being demonstrating how to do it right.

i cant make it to that though..

That is something that is not hard to do but requires the right tools and would be good seeing in person . . . especially if you are not used to using a cleaning rod on a rifle.
Sorry you cannot make it this weekend!

{PWNY} RED wrote:i cant make it to that though..

Alright then the only thing i can say is you polish it like everything else that gets polished, but you just cant see it.

#CW!!ZERO wrote:[Alright then the only thing i can say is you polish it like everything else that gets polished, but you just cant see it.

I use a gun cleaning rod with a .22cal bore mop and flitz...then long smooth strokes . . . you can wash the mop and add more flitz as it gets clogged . . . GLOSSY smooth barrel will soon follow!

Tinman wrote:

#CW!!ZERO wrote:[Alright then the only thing i can say is you polish it like everything else that gets polished, but you just cant see it.

I use a gun cleaning rod with a .22cal bore mop and flitz...then long smooth strokes . . . you can wash the mop and add more flitz as it gets clogged . . . GLOSSY smooth barrel will soon follow!

I actually use a drill press or just a hand drill to get and effective "buff" when polishing it.

I had seen this a while ago, but I just realized the need for more scientific testing. If it's any help to anyone, I have an airsoft "range" in my basement. Can shoot at a distance up to 58 feet. It isn't the longest (wouldn't be the greatest for a high-end sniper) but it is pretty good for testing accuracy with AEGs. If you haven't figured it out by now, being indoors allows the conditions to be identical every shot.

Thats why i did it in no wind, plus even if there was a slight breeze it would have affected all the groupings, I did each shooting with 3 seperate targets and got an average of the same results on all the tests, it not like the wind just magically started blowing at the exact same speed everytime I shot the polished tightbore barrel. If you want to test it go for it, its not like I am afraid of you proving me wrong. And if you look at the first PDI picture I posted it shows the science behind it. When it is a tighterbore the bb has more tendency to bounce more exaggeratedly and when it comes out of the barrel goes flying. I test I will soon be doing is the new EdGI barrel with the port holes and a PDI vaccum piston setup. That combo is supposed to not let the pressure of the outside air affect the bb and is supposed to give amazing accuracy results, my next set of tests will be with a gun clamp and indoors. Go for it if you want, but I will be redoing the tests early this upcoming summer.

Haha I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, I'm just putting this out there in general. Though I will say that even though it seemed like there was no win or consistent wind, that's pretty much impossible outside. Even inside there are air currents but they are much, much more constant and obviously slower than even a perfectly still day outside. Point is that outside, even at 100 feet, the air changes constantly and in many ways. Every second there are changes in wind direction, speed, humidity, even temperature (though quite small). Inside, especially in a basement (surrounded entirely by ground, 6 feet underground the temperature will never change), conditions are nearly exact and unchanging. Though the distance may not be as great, scientifically speaking the test is X times greater (and don't pull the "X<1" card )

Thats why I did three tests for each barrel, so that way I wouldnt get a bad grouping for a little wind.

Lol I understand what you did, quite honestly I tthink it's perfectly adequate. It's just the science part of me... haha that's the way I think.

The science is in PDI's picture diagram.

Well yes, it's their claimed science, or maybe even their scientific theory.. But when I see something like that I like to know someone has tested it. In theory, theory is reality, but in reality, theory is just a probable idea.

Why do I feel like we are way off topic? Haha

The barrel diameter question has always been one of debate in airsoft. I tried to address some of the facts in this thread Barrel Diameter. What pdi claim isn't some magical science it is aerodynamic theory. If you have any questions about it feel free to pm me.

Very well said Zero

I guess my reply was deleted. I am not sure why, If someone could tell me why I would appreciate it. This is slightly off topic so I will explain where my experience comes from. I am from the houston community, where I helped with getting their forum www.se-tac.com started. Also A buddy and I helped create the Second Sunday Shootout which is now the staple game in the houston community and has been for 3 years and running now. I have handled plenty of airsoft guns and have been through my fair share of parts. I currently work as an Airtech at Georgia Paintball. The reason the 6.01 tightbore produces inferior results is because of the drag the barrel places on the BB. Also in full auto AEG situations the friction of multiple BB's contacting the barrel will cause the barrel to swell and the tolerance to tighten even more. most BB's are rated at 5.95m to 5.98mm and that is assuming all the BB's are perfectly round. Most BB's no matter how high grade will have some off BBs which are slightly egg shaped. Those Egg shaped BB's will scuff the barrel leaving residue on the barrel decreasing the amount of Space. Theoretically the looser the bore the less the BB will contact the barrel, and the less friction that will heat the barrel swelling it. In my own personal experience My best results have been with 6.03 tightbore barrels. Your testing is very good, I would like to see this comparison against a 6.03 if you have it. If not I will do my own test and post the results.

I actually got an email last night saying someone pasted on this topic, when i went to look the post was gone, i figured the poster deleted his own post, if someone deleted the post I have no knowledge of it, but the gun i did this testing with is long gone. The bb's i was using were .29 sgm bb's. As for your theories they make sense, I would like to see a testing done with a 6.03 barrel. Let me know what you find out.