Full tune kits.

I'm debating between the Systema full tune kit and the Guarder full tune kit for my M4. I'm going to be mating it with a Matrix Magnum motor. I'm going for a high speed setup. I'm leaning towards the Guarder kit because I've read that they are good (and not to mention almost $100 cheaper than the Systema kit). The extra money saved will allow me to get a mosfet for it and stay in budget. What is your input guys. I know you guys have some good answers.

i have used the guarder kit, and i am gettin amazing compression

I am of the opinion that it is better to build your own "kit" than buy an FTK. Exactly how high-speed are you going? You can usually get around 30rps with stock gears, turbo motor, new piston, mosfet, etc. If you plan on going 30+ RPS then you are going to need to buy separate parts and things will break. It all depends on how fast you want to be going.

Also, stay away from the majority of systema upgrades. They are generally way overpriced and the only thing I buy from them are hop-up buckings.

Do you have links to the FTKs?

what's your budget and rps goal? you will get more rps from a high discharge battery. also, high rps will empty out your hicap mag. plan on a box mag.
can't go wrong with guarder.

gaurder gears and systema gears are junk. Dont buy a ftk just essentialy make your own kit.

alex you are also incorrect about guarder. In some cases you can go wrong with it..... And you dont have to have a box mag when you have high rps.. i run mids so ya.....

I'm leaning towards the kits because I'm pretty sure the current JG internals aren't going to hold up to what I want to do.

Budget is approximately $250. Goal is a ROF at 25-30 bps. Good trigger response. And since the entire team is running LiPo....LiPo ready. I do have links, but I'll have to put them up tomorrow seeing that I'm doing this on my phone. And of course I'm open to suggestions from the gurus on here.

sniper2525 wrote:gaurder gears and systema gears are junk. Dont buy a ftk just essentialy make your own kit.

alex you are also incorrect about guarder. In some cases you can go wrong with it..... And you dont have to have a box mag when you have high rps.. i run mids so ya.....

i haven't tried out their gears. what's wrong with their gears? all their gears brake or is it just a quality control issue? as for mids, looking like a human grenade isn't me. i like to carry 2 hicaps and a bottle of bbs or a box mag and not worry about reloads.

i agree about building your own kit, but if he has a choice of the two, i would go guarder.

-a|ex wrote:

sniper2525 wrote:gaurder gears and systema gears are junk. Dont buy a ftk just essentialy make your own kit.

alex you are also incorrect about guarder. In some cases you can go wrong with it..... And you dont have to have a box mag when you have high rps.. i run mids so ya.....

i haven't tried out their gears. what's wrong with their gears? all their gears brake or is it just a quality control issue? as for mids, looking like a human grenade isn't me. i like to carry 2 hicaps and a bottle of bbs or a box mag and not worry about reloads.

i agree about building your own kit, but if he has a choice of the two, i would go guarder.

Box mags = cumbersome+ugly+don't feed as well as mids = not for me

Get a magum motor, SHS 1:16 gears, SHS or Quantum piston, mosfet, lipo, M120, shims, deans and you should be good.

Electioneer wrote:

i agree about building your own kit, but if he has a choice of the two, i would go guarder.

Box mags = cumbersome+ugly+don't feed as well as mids = not for me

Get a magum motor, SHS 1:16 gears, SHS or Quantum piston, mosfet, lipo, M120, shims, deans and you should be good.[/quote]

Reed pretty much summed up what you need to get your gun to about 28 rps with it still being pretty reliable, boxmags are not a very effective way to go, they are loud and dont feed well, plus they make almost every gun look bad. All of IC has guns that are 30 rps at least and many much higher then that. All of us run midcap mids and they feed our everyday 30 rps guns and our extreme 50+ rps guns.

If I could only find a place that has SHS gears in stock.

cykotik1 wrote:If I could only find a place that has SHS gears in stock.

WGC shop
Redwold
Ehobby Asia
Px-airsoft are just a few to list that have them all in stock right now
Order outacountry it pwns in country any day.

cykotik1 wrote:If I could only find a place that has SHS gears in stock.

Evike Also has "matrix" gears that are just rebranded SHS.

And the mosfet can be aquired from Electioneer /\/\/\

Is the Matrix magnum motor not for high torque, or High FPS applications? I thought the Matrix turbo woul d be the way to go for high rps....

Turbo is for speed, but it be too fast what you wanna do, especially if you have 13.1 gears in the gun, it will put you more around 40-50 rps and you will run into many problems very quickly.

Ahh I missed the 16:1 suggestion.

cykotik1 wrote:I'm leaning towards the kits because I'm pretty sure the current JG internals aren't going to hold up to what I want to do.

Budget is approximately $250. Goal is a ROF at 25-30 bps. Good trigger response. And since the entire team is running LiPo....LiPo ready. I do have links, but I'll have to put them up tomorrow seeing that I'm doing this on my phone. And of course I'm open to suggestions from the gurus on here.

btw, JG gears are pretty strong. keep the stock gears and add what other's recommend. matrix magnum + 11.1v lipo + mosfet + your choice of piston/ph
upgrade whatever leaks or breaks.

remember, 11.1v lipo's can turn into a flame thrower if not properly cared for.

-a|ex wrote:

cykotik1 wrote:I'm leaning towards the kits because I'm pretty sure the current JG internals aren't going to hold up to what I want to do.

Budget is approximately $250. Goal is a ROF at 25-30 bps. Good trigger response. And since the entire team is running LiPo....LiPo ready. I do have links, but I'll have to put them up tomorrow seeing that I'm doing this on my phone. And of course I'm open to suggestions from the gurus on here.

btw, JG gears are pretty strong. keep the stock gears and add what other's recommend. matrix magnum + 11.1v lipo + mosfet + your choice of piston/ph
upgrade whatever leaks or breaks.

remember, 11.1v lipo's can turn into a flame thrower if not properly cared for.

If you stay with stock gears I would get the turbo then it will bring you up to the 28 rps area. A magnum will leave you more at 24 rps

if you have $250 to play with.
drop 80 on a modify torus 8mm box
40 on a matrix turbo motor
40 on matrix standard gears
then find a good donor gear box for all the other parts.
keep the one in your gun as a drop in backup
this will give you a chance to tinker with a box
when you are done it will handle anything you throw at it.
then you can play with your set up,but always have your stock gearbox to fall back on

if you want to keep it at 400-420 fps, i recommend matrix magnum... it should get your goal of 25-30 rps.
higher torque motor is easier on your GB as oppose to higher speed motor. if you want to keep it below 400 fps, the turbo will get you to the top end of the 25-30 rps.

-a|ex wrote:if you want to keep it at 400-420 fps, i recommend matrix magnum... it should get your goal of 25-30 rps.
higher torque motor is easier on your GB as oppose to higher speed motor. if you want to keep it below 400 fps, the turbo will get you to the top end of the 25-30 rps.

The turbo is fine for an m120, it will get you to about 28-30 rps with stock gears. A magnum will slow the gun down little bit and bring you down to about 24-26 rps. And if you are saying both motors bring you to 25-30rps then why would one motor be harder on the gb then the other? Your not making much sense.

yah, i wasn't being too clear. the magnum will get you to the lower end of the 25-30, but also depends on how efficient your gb is (light weight piston/ph no piston bearing). high speed will take you to the upper end of 25-30 (again, depending on gb efficiency). there's alot of combinations, but my polycarb teeth pistons last longer with torque setup as oppose to high speed setups.

Well of course polycarb teeth arent going to last long in a highspeed setup, thats ,why reed said to use a quantum piston

#CW!!ZERO wrote:Well of course polycarb teeth arent going to last long in a highspeed setup, thats ,why reed said to use a quantum piston

going over budget... it'd be nice to have a quantum piston.
i prefer to go under budget with metal teeth rack and keep it around the lower end of 25-30 rps with a higher output LiPo. in practicality, the difference of 5 rps is negligible. he still has to purchase the requirements to run LiPo (that's 2x 11.1v + reed's fet + connectors + balance charger + flame retardant charging bag + voltage monitor/buzzer). that's almost half his budget. in terms of total cost, one has to make sacrifices. but, he can still run polycarb with a torque motor at 25 rps. Rhino sold me on one of those orange element pistons. i couldn't believe how great a polycarb half tooth element piston withstood an sp160 spring with very little wear (saturday's ACZ game). it's much cheaper than a quantum.

Uhm......the LiPo battery isn't a necessity. At least not at the moment. So the entire budget can be dumped into the performance aspect. We have plenty of batteries. And for the moment I can put new connectors on my existing batteries.

cykotik1 wrote:Uhm......the LiPo battery isn't a necessity. At least not at the moment. So the entire budget can be dumped into the performance aspect. We have plenty of batteries. And for the moment I can put new connectors on my existing batteries.

you're not going to hit 25-30 rps easily without an 11.1v LiPo. you can run 2x 9.6v in parallel with a turbo motor to get close to it though. i made a 12v NiMH (attached in series) but didn't increase the rps much.