effectiveness of .223/5.56 round?

I was talking with someone the other day about guns and they kept going over how ineffective the .223 round was and how it was the reason they used a g3 copy for home defense blah blah blah ".223 only kills if you shoot them in the head".... BS yeah its a small round but how effective is it? Last time i checked shooting an unarmored person in the chest with any round makes life difficult

so people with combat/.223 experience how e/infective is the .223 round at killing/stopping a target?

imo: guns kill

Well, the guys an idiot to have a .223 home defense rifle, as it could very easily once shot at its target go through the person, through his house, and into his neighbors house possibly killing him/her in their sleep. And in the process damaging his and his neigbors house and anything in between.

Depends on the situation, person, and where you are hit. If I'm a good shot and was able to put 3 .223/5x56 rounds through your center mass or even your head FIRST, of course that would put me on the upper hand even if you have a bigger caliber rifle or a shotgun. However, if I hit you on your leg, arm or somewhere where it will cause you to bleed out, you'll have that short time to fight back.

Any firearm can kill, just depends on the operator how well he/she can utilize that weapon system to make it an effective defense tool. Type of ammunition also differ on how much damage and how fast it can render you "dead/done for". Of course, a father with a 12 gauge will just tear up someone who broke into their house as opposed to the neighbor that has a 9mm and had to effectively and efficiently use it to kill the intruder. A small gun doesn't mean that it can't do the job, it just means that the bigger gun can makes it easier.

After doing some short searching and some reading i found this http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/29-1220.aspx
overview:
round velocity and type are crucial
for maximum effect the target has to be at 70 yards for a 16" barrel (m4)
and at +/- 200 yards for a 20 in barrel
this is so the round has enough kinetic energy to break up on impact

Also flipa i agree with you on the shotgun for home defense; nothing says GTFO like a pump action

I think I can sum up the effectiveness of the .223 in a way that someone who has never shot another person only can :

All of the NATO nations use it as their standard rifle round, they have done so for a few decades now. Has to mean something.

Here is where my forensic part of physics comes in, in theory since the round is lighter then the standard armor piercing AK round which is meant to go straight through a body and armor the small M4 round should actually tumble through the body at an approximate distance shreading the internals, thus making it extremely effective.

Is a .223 round going to put a target down? Not immediately. It is going to leave an exit wound the size of a baseball more than likely though. It may not knock you out of the fight right away, but it will Injure you.

In a home defense situation, your cant take that risk, you need something that is going to put the target down, so IMO you need to go with a bigger caliber. Bigger bullet traveling at slower velocity = a whole world of hurt and more than likely death.

HOWEVER, from a tactical standpoint, killing your enemy isnt always whats best. Sometimes its better to injure as many people as you can. The more people you injure, the more people you take out of the fight.

It works like this: Say you have a 12 man squad. 4 of them get shot up. One medic isnt going to be able to care for four people, which means you start pulling from the squad. While their primary mission is to engage the enemy, 90 percent of the time your squad are your buddies and your going to want to save them. The 4 guys who got shot all have massive hemorrhaging and a couple have sucking chest wounds. Its going to take a lot of effort to keep them alive and kicking, so your looking at taking at least another 4 guys from the squad to care for them. That is now 8 guys who are out of the fight, and you only had to shoot four.

If you kill someone, they may or may not want the body, and even if they do, they dont need to care for it once the recover it.

From a tactical standpoint, tis much better to use the .223 because its lighter, causes significant damage, and is capable from firing from a variety of weapons.

it was adopted by nato because of a treaty banning hollow points. it was considered inhumane to use hollow points. the .223 was kept in service because of it's ability to penetrate vehicles. but the stopping power is mainly shot placement. if vital organs are not hit, then caliber size doesn't matter.

-a|ex wrote: if vital organs are not hit, then caliber size doesn't matter.

I beg to differ. A 7.62 very well may take your arm off with it, and a .50 cal will definitely take your arm with it, no questions asked. And thats going to cause you to bleed out in under two minutes.

Home defense? If you have some skills, ie. training, hand gun. It is small enough that you can keep it tucked close and still use it in confined spaces......coming down the stairs to your living room or down the hall to the kitchen. Not so skilled? Shotgun with some kind of small pellett round? I don't know shotguns all that well so cut me some slack please. You DO NOT want to over penetrate (that's what she said). Shooting a family member due to missing the BG or having your round go thru them would be a BAD THING. Most engagements in your house will be with in....20 feet? After you read this, walk around your house. Where would you most likely encounter an uninvited guest? Even birdshot at 10' is not going to spread very far. It will defenately mess someone up and might even knock them off their feet where you could put another 1 or 2 into them for good measure. If you have a round holder on the side of your shotty, put in a few other types. I would not use slugs since it will surely over penetrate.

Also, since you will most likely encounter this person/s at night, have a good light with you. And DO NOT walk around with the light ON.....this says "Hey bad guy, I am right here so shoot me." You know your house better than they do. Use that to your advantage.

One of the first rules in home defense is "a handgun is for fighting to your long gun." Long gun choice would probably best be a shotgun. 12 ga. pump action with a pistol grip is the best imho. Point n' shoot. When considering a weapon you need to figure out what you are going to be using it for. Zombie invasion, home defense, CC, hunting, shadow people population control, etc. all have different aspects to them. 5.56 while a very good round has it's place and I don't think it's in a home defense situation.

NJSC wrote:shadow people population control

Nobody understands shadow people....Nobody else was there with me man. Im telling you I SAW THEM lol.

Twitch wrote:

-a|ex wrote: if vital organs are not hit, then caliber size doesn't matter.

I beg to differ. A 7.62 very well may take your arm off with it, and a .50 cal will definitely take your arm with it, no questions asked. And thats going to cause you to bleed out in under two minutes.

2 minutes is plenty of time for the bad guy to shoot off a few mags. stopping power means just that, stopping them instantly. shot placement is key. i guess if you shoot off both arms and legs with a .50 cal, it would eliminate the threat.

-a|ex wrote:
2 minutes is plenty of time for the bad guy to shoot off a few mags. stopping power means just that, stopping them instantly. shot placement is key. i guess if you shoot off both arms and legs with a .50 cal, it would eliminate the threat.

If your arm or leg is shot off, your out of the fight. I dont care who you are. The sheer amount of blunt force trauma involved with that is ridiculous, not to mention the psychological effect.

-a|ex wrote:

2 minutes is plenty of time for the bad guy to shoot off a few mags. stopping power means just that, stopping them instantly. shot placement is key. i guess if you shoot off both arms and legs with a .50 cal, it would eliminate the threat.

Eh...don't think you'll find to many people firing back at you with serious wounds, regardless of the lethality of the wound. Some, maybe, but most, no way. Idk, ask Andy about it he probably knows better than us.

Glock 20 10mm star points. my home defense weapon of choice



Also dusty, guns don't kill people. the government does.

Loosing an arm or a leg. Or 2 arms or 2 legs? "Mearly a flesh wound".

For the purpose of home invasion, adrenaline will be pumping. More so for the home owner I would think. The BG will be pretty pumped up, but they are thinking that they got in easy enough so they will just get what they want and beat feet. The homeowner is super pumped cause "Somebody done broke in mah house!" Without serious training (and maybe even still) a perfect site picture won't happen, along with jerking the trigger, bad breathing, moving to the threat, yelling commands (or just yelling), etc.....= rounds not hitting the target. So, I would go shotgun. You don't need perfect aim. If you are just off center mass, it will still be a hit. As awesome as a pump sounds...I would still go semi-auto. Weapon off safe, pull trigger. Pull trigger again. Pull trigger again. Do not settle with one shot unless it is OBVIOUS the target is down. For good. One thing we were trained is to physiclslly check our guys after contact. They might not realize they have been shot/hit with shrapnel. Adrenaline will, sort of, turn off those pain receptors when the blood is pulled from the surface and sent to the muscles and organs.

i've had false alarms already and did a room to room check down my (furnished) basement. then again, i practice room to room searches down my basement frequently. the adrenaline level is controllable (i used to road race motorcycles, pure adrenaline rush). my only concern is shooting an unarmed kid breaking in for a quick grab. normally, i would view my surveillance cameras for any broken entry points or just check the message center on my alarm unit. once the BG is located on camera, it's easy for me to run to a per-rehearsed ambush point. i wonder how much my video will be worth if it catches a nice BG killshot. my home defense is a FNH ps90.

AR-15... with Glaser Safety Slug rounds.

just use your airsoft gun
think about it
have you been shot up close?
how about 33rps at 400+fps to the face with no eye/face pro
you use these guns alot.
you will not kill your kids or the dog.
blind BG with no teeth,bleeding from his face holes = great news story

-a|ex wrote:i've had false alarms already and did a room to room check down my (furnished) basement. then again, i practice room to room searches down my basement frequently. the adrenaline level is controllable (i used to road race motorcycles, pure adrenaline rush). my only concern is shooting an unarmed kid breaking in for a quick grab. normally, i would view my surveillance cameras for any broken entry points or just check the message center on my alarm unit. once the BG is located on camera, it's easy for me to run to a per-rehearsed ambush point. i wonder how much my video will be worth if it catches a nice BG killshot. my home defense is a FNH ps90.

your cameras creep me out, and thats why i never tried to sneak into your house

so overall
1. .223 is effective and kills
2. shotgun for home defense
3. know how to protect your home/ use your gun

poopdaddy wrote:just use your airsoft gun
think about it
have you been shot up close?
how about 33rps at 400+fps to the face with no eye/face pro
you use these guns alot.
you will not kill your kids or the dog.
blind BG with no teeth,bleeding from his face holes = great news story

Best reply yet lol

wolf six wrote:

your cameras creep me out, and thats why i never tried to sneak into your house

so overall
1. .223 is effective and kills
2. shotgun for home defense
3. know how to protect your home/ use your gun

I think I'd be more concerned with the guns than the cameras.

MSG Ridgeway wrote:Glock 20 10mm star points. my home defense weapon of choice



Also dusty, guns don't kill people. the government does.

you said Glock?

drizzetsrevenge wrote:

MSG Ridgeway wrote:Glock 20 10mm star points. my home defense weapon of choice



Also dusty, guns don't kill people. the government does.

you said Glock?

for the win