No SAAL for ATLAS IN '10

I origianally thought the SAAL was a great idea, and it still is in principle, especially the inclusion of the "conduct cards", holding people responsible for their own behavior. After the first couple of games I started hearing the same complaints about the same players who cause problems in the open games but nothing was done, so I figured verbal warnings were being given first. As the SAAL season has progressed I continue to hear more and more players voicing my EXACT same complaints about the EXACT same players week after week and nothing of any use is being done. Having the benifit of using a scope I have ,without any doubt, seen my bb's bounce off another player's knee only to have him then tuck that knee behind cover, continue firing at me and yell for me to call my hit. I have watched a player get shot in the side by another player who snuck up on him, with his only responce being to turn and fire on the player who just shot him. I have sprayed a player in the chest as he ran up on me with no cover only to have him get close, shoot me, and then call me a cheat for not calling my hit. When I am hit, I call hit and walk away, that is how the game is played. I am certain that I am great but I am not immortal, even in airsoft.

Like many of you, and unlike those I am speaking of, I work hard for my money and am very short on free time, but have sacrifieced what little of both I have because I enjoyed airsoft. I have no desire to continue to drag myself out of bed early every Saturday morning just to waste both. Because, of comitments I have made to my team I will finish this SAAL season with my team, however as long as players are allowed to continiously and blatently tarnish their own, and their teams integrity without any repercussions, there is no point or enjoyment left in participating in SAAL.

I say every Airdog player get an ID, Even if they just play once. Then every time they have a confirmed count of not calling hits, or cheating in any way they get a mark on their card. Once they have a certain amount of marks, they get a suspension, after a few suspensions they lose the privilege to play at Airdog.

IMO we defiantly need some variant of this rule enforced.

we have those cards. i refered to them as "conduct cards" don't know the real name and mine is in my gear bag which i don't care to dig through right now.

It was all I could do not to walk off too . . . tired of being screamed at to call my hits while a ref is ten feet away watching me and just shrugging because he knows the same thing I do . . . I am in fact NOT hit . . . just fed up with being called a liar . . . I finally just went and pretty much stood by respawn for the remainder of the game.

Well I'm not in SAAL and neither are the guys I run with, so we only play open games. Yes there are always people who don't call their hit. Typically it is a younger player who has yet to learn what an honest airsoft player is so I give them a little slack and try to lead by example in correct conduct. What surprises me lately is that there are a number of "veteran" players out there who are suppose to be honest airsoft players that play by the rules but instead run around breaking them instead. I still can't wrap my head around why someone would cheat in any airsoft game, but really don't understand why the older players are cheating. My fear is it's going to promote this behavior among the younger players. I'm sure Airdog is in the process of outfitting everyone with conduct cards but I have to ask what the point will be if they don't use them.

How true that is Zero. "veteran" players....whatever. I call my hits, thats all I know. And as for Atlas I agree that it makes SAAL less fun when certain people have to cheat to win and have done so...and its not just not calling hits.

In our SAAL game, I watched someone (not sure who) take a 204 round m203 blast to their chest and head from 20ft away. He dropped behind a bunker and started blind-firing. Ever since I started back in February, i've played an honest game and had no complaints against me that I know of.

Like ATLAS said, There are good players, but none are immortal.

{PWNY}Dragon wrote:In our SAAL game, I watched someone (not sure who) take a 204 round m203 blast to their chest and head from 20ft away. He dropped behind a bunker and started blind-firing. Ever since I started back in February, i've played an honest game and had no complaints against me that I know of.

Like ATLAS said, There are good players, but none are immortal.

If your talking about Dagger Unit this past weekend, Im sorry but I dont believe that at all...it probably happened the other way around.

I wasn't there but this doesn't sound right to me.

Retherford wrote:

{PWNY}Dragon wrote:In our SAAL game, I watched someone (not sure who) take a 204 round m203 blast to their chest and head from 20ft away. He dropped behind a bunker and started blind-firing. Ever since I started back in February, i've played an honest game and had no complaints against me that I know of.

Like ATLAS said, There are good players, but none are immortal.

If your talking about Dagger Unit this past weekend, Im sorry but I dont believe that at all...it probably happened the other way around.

I wasn't there but this doesn't sound right to me.

Yeah, there was no one in our lineup for Saturday that isn't an honest player.

the difficult thing with me is like what tinman said, there have been situations where i have watched players shoot at me and tell me to call my hit as i watch their bb's fall a good 20 feet infront of me, and after those games talk continues such as (i hit him he didnt call his hits) not only this but ive seen other players taking fire from behind bunkers and bb's not even reaching while the guy shooting is getting angry cause he isnt calling his hits(which were not even making it to the bunker) plus i just wanted to test the mentality once, so when i was pinned behind bunkers befor i would stick the butt of my gun above the bunker to draw fire, and i would here voices "COME ON! or ARE YOU SERIOUS" while i think to myself im behind this bunker, and as far as i know gun hits dont count" and i know ive done my share of getting fustrated with people not calling hits, and even talked to people about it and realized that misunderstandings happen, and i know sometimes at ranges people cant feel there hits, thats one problem you cant get around,

as far as talking in secret goes, im against this, if someone has a problem with me calling my hits, tell me, i try to play as honest of a game as i can, every hit i feel i call, even through complaints i have heard, hits i dont call are A: gun hits B: rebounds i have asked refs in games to watch me and see if they are rebounds im taking and cause ive heard complaints, even in times where there was no way i could be hit,
if anyone needs to talk to me about a situation they feel i didnt call my hit, then PM me, please or contact me and dont just gossip.

as far as cheating in SAAL beyond not calling hits, i dont see what people mean by cheating objectives or what not, and how its possible with ref guidance and a guideline of objectives, so if anyone knows tell me,

WPeake23 [SOTHG] wrote:

Retherford wrote:

{PWNY}Dragon wrote:In our SAAL game, I watched someone (not sure who) take a 204 round m203 blast to their chest and head from 20ft away. He dropped behind a bunker and started blind-firing. Ever since I started back in February, i've played an honest game and had no complaints against me that I know of.

Like ATLAS said, There are good players, but none are immortal.

If your talking about Dagger Unit this past weekend, Im sorry but I dont believe that at all...it probably happened the other way around.

I wasn't there but this doesn't sound right to me.

Yeah, there was no one in our lineup for Saturday that isn't an honest player.

how can you speak for your players though, anyone can easily say that in defence

By cheating in other ways thats not calling hits I mean things with objectives. Maybe an ammo crate or something...

And I can speak for my teammates because I have never once playing with any of them, seen one of them take a hit and not call it. Not once.

Im curious if you can say the same.

It was Reed, Admin, Twitch, Mark, and Billy. 3 are all well known, and and honest people. Billy, and Mark I have played with enough to know they play fair.

i can say the same acctually, ive seen my team mates take a floater form across PBO with my sniper, and barely feel it on vests and take em, same with GDAS, mondry that was probably the most honest hit calling ive seen, i have only had a few problems with other teams taking OBVIOUS hits, and i have talked to them and found out their side which i could make since with
but some hits ppl THINK are hitting dont, like a gun 280 FPS i know isnt gonna go through dense woods as good as 400 FPS... and bb's do drop short often when ppl dont know.
and as far as cheating objectives go, give me an example of when this happened..

This last post made me laugh. You know what was funny and ironic about it? Ive had and heard of trouble with a few "teams" aswell.

As for the objective I already gave an example read my post.

what happened with the ammo crate that I and the refs didnt clear up, yall shot him yes maybe that means he wouldve dropped it RIGHT THERE, and guess who was right there, all of us, i was right at the bunker where he woulve dropped it so all i would have to do was safely pick it up and put it, in, thats what me and the refs talked about after that game and thats why we got those points
ask any ref and stop sulking the past games.

if you wanna keep up i dont care, im not gonna sit here and be disrespectfull, to any other teams,
it doesnt make me feel any better about my personal life, or help me sleep at night,
if it helps you
be my guest

Post Removed as per ignorance to the thread topic. My bad.

Guys . . . this likely needs to be steered back on topic.
Atlas was speaking about his personal decision not to play SAAL again because of being told to call his hits. My response and some of the others is essentially the same. While I'm certainly not perfect, I do not like being called a liar so it is not fun. If this thread degrades into accusations then it will wind up being locked and go away.
There is nothing wrong with us saying that we do not like being accused of cheating . . . there IS something wrong with turning towards accusations of others not calling their hits . . .
HECK, I can assure you that Atlas did not start this thread for anyone to start typing "call your hits" . . . it is bad enough to have people yell it but type it???? C'mon are you serious???

Tinman wrote:
HECK, I can assure you that Atlas did not start this thread for anyone to start typing "call your hits" . . . it is bad enough to have people yell it but type it???? C'mon are you serious???

Best post on the whole forum. Props Tinman.

Im sorry this got off topic, but let me ask you something guys. If your team, say Cereal Killers, was accused on the forum for not calling hits and cheating in SAAL. Would you let it go without defending your guys. I mean you guys might but I wont.

Retherford wrote:Im sorry this got off topic, but let me ask you something guys. If your team, say Cereal Killers, was accused on the forum for not calling hits and cheating in SAAL. Would you let it go without defending your guys. I mean you guys might but I wont.

translation: "I'm sorry but I'm not sorry"
No biggie . . . we've been accused of plenty! I just always consider the source . . . may not work for ya but it does WONDERS for me!

i personaly had many issues with cheating this weekend..... the thing that realy makes me mad is when people say o it was just a gun hit... well whats in front of your body... YOUR GUN!! so they are saying after i shoot half a mid cap at them it just hits there gun im sry but thats impossible especialy when they arnt even behind cover...... i am loving saal i personaly call my hits i always have. I just cant stand people who dont call there hits thats the only thing that gets me mad especialy when i see bbs flying off there gear..... I love airsoft and most of my team and i have been playing well for over 6 years and it just ruins it when ppl cheat.... thats all i got to say

i am not trying to bash on any one or any team i am just saying what i have experienced

sniper2525 wrote:the thing that realy makes me mad is when people say o it was just a gun hit... well whats in front of your body... YOUR GUN!!

But I am sure that if you believed anyone ever did that to you, you'd be man enough to say that to their face when they tried to talk to you . . . any person of character would certainly welcome the opportunity to resolve something like that in person.

Tinman wrote:

sniper2525 wrote:the thing that realy makes me mad is when people say o it was just a gun hit... well whats in front of your body... YOUR GUN!!

But I am sure that if you believed anyone ever did that to you, you'd be man enough to say that to their face when they tried to talk to you . . . any person of character would certainly welcome the opportunity to resolve something like that in person.

I can speak on that...... The reason Trent didnt say anything is because I told the entire team to be quite and not argue about it..... It was not worth arguing about. I told them all to just walk off the feild and to remain quite and professional. Nothing good would have came of it, if Trent said I know I hit you! it would have just started and arguement, the not calling of hits didnt make or break the end result! I didnt speak about any of this nor did I stop to listen to any of it because I wasnt involved in it. I was on the other side of the field and never even saw half of your team. My job that game was to make sure no one came down the right side of the field (our right side) Thats it! I never once yelled call your hit nor did I even say anything that game! One of my team mates asked me a question (when I was at the respawn point, hot swapped out) and I told him I couldnt talk since I wasnt in the game at the moment. Also just to clarify one other thing everyone that played with us was register as part of the team since day one. ONLY ONE time did we use a fill in player (actually 2 fill in players for the same game) and we lost that game 50 points to 100 points