Anyone want to have a religious debate?

Well I'm done with Bible college in 1 week so i had a little advantage.

Aggressor wrote:The fact remains that a significant percentage of elephants without tusks are on the rise. However, is this the result of evolution or a hardcore institution of natural selection? The fact of the matter is the elephants who have the genetic trait of being tuskless arent hunted down and killed in great numbers, making them vastly more prone to survival and reproduction. The elephants didnt evolve into being tuskless, the tusked ones are just being slaughtered.

Technically speaking, this is natural selection too. The killing and elimination of species with a trait by an outside force for whatever reason also falls into natural selection.

and NJSC:
WOW. No wonder...... lolol. Thanks for that info, I'll look into it. Heck, no way I could get past you with anything like that, I'm not even IN college yet, plus I'll be at an engineering school. hahaha

then we'll have a math test or something

Stalker I was saying that it was in fact natural selection occuring.

Aggressor wrote:Stalker I was saying that it was in fact natural selection occuring.

right, i know, lol just supporting it further. sorry should have worded it better

NJSC wrote:then we'll have a math test or something

OH PLEASE NO... seriously no stereotyping... lol. Engineers don't HAVE to be great at math, just practical application of it. I'm good enough to do what I need, but I'm no quantum theorist or anything. haha. For example, I'm thinking about becoming a gunsmith. Only thing holding me back is that idk how much money I could actually get in it... :/

Stalker wrote:

Humans, however, are different. As we have a different capacity from other animals for psychological abilities, as well as more apparent and beyond-need emotion, we choose to let some unuseful genes stay in the pool because we love and care for people. If two autistic people want to have children, then they can.

yea i know. this bothers me so much. i think that humans should have to get permission to have offspring. if they have genes that are extremely poor for survival, then they should not pass them on to an offspring. humans seem to be de-evolving because we are finding more and more ways to allow the weak to survive, therefore, a larger percent of the population is 'weak' and survival of the fittest does not seem to have much play in humans as it does in other animals.

sorry if i sound harsh.

Markerscope1 [SOTHG] wrote:yea i know. this bothers me so much. i think that humans should have to get permission to have offspring. if they have genes that are extremely poor for survival, then they should not pass them on to an offspring. humans seem to be de-evolving because we are finding more and more ways to allow the weak to survive, therefore, a larger percent of the population is 'weak' and survival of the fittest does not seem to have much play in humans as it does in other animals.

sorry if i sound harsh.

haha I know where you are coming from... I mean honestly... people are just SO STUPID. I don't mean to be rude but... no I don't really care. They don't try, and its a problem. Screw political correctness. Now I don't entirely believe people need permission for offspring, but the smart or even average people simply aren't producing enough offspring to counter it. At least not in the US, hence our current decline... :/

Check out this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpEnFwiqdx8&feature=player_embedded

Markerscope1 [SOTHG] wrote:

yea i know. this bothers me so much. i think that humans should have to get permission to have offspring. if they have genes that are extremely poor for survival, then they should not pass them on to an offspring. humans seem to be de-evolving because we are finding more and more ways to allow the weak to survive, therefore, a larger percent of the population is 'weak' and survival of the fittest does not seem to have much play in humans as it does in other animals.

sorry if i sound harsh.

This is pretty harsh dude. The idea that you are suggesting would not work. First off who can quantify what genes would be best for survival? It could come down to who would be able to forage for the higher berries in the trees (a la giraffe) then you wouldn't be able to reproduce and I would because of height differences. The idea of evolution takes place over millions upon millions of years, and with that idea humans haven't been on the scene that long so they have not yet had a chance to devolve. You can't quantify weak in the current state of things, and the whole point of natural selection is natural not something ordered by humans. So if the utopia of evolution (ironic ain't it?) would hold true then everything would work out in the end anyway.

NJSC wrote:

This is pretty harsh dude. The idea that you are suggesting would not work. First off who can quantify what genes would be best for survival? It could come down to who would be able to forage for the higher berries in the trees (a la giraffe) then you wouldn't be able to reproduce and I would because of height differences. The idea of evolution takes place over millions upon millions of years, and with that idea humans haven't been on the scene that long so they have not yet had a chance to devolve. You can't quantify weak in the current state of things, and the whole point of natural selection is natural not something ordered by humans. So if the utopia of evolution (ironic ain't it?) would hold true then everything would work out in the end anyway.

its not natural to provide treatment for those that would not be able to survive without medicine due do genetic disabilities. and i think it is quite simple to determine what is best for survival. if you have a genetic disease that would kill you without medical help, then that is what i would consider the 'week' or those that should not pass on their disability into the gene pool.

natural selection would only work if we did not prevent those people from dying.

Stalker wrote:
Check out this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpEnFwiqdx8&feature=player_embedded

yea i've seen this, its pretty amazing.

Just a question, has anyone here studied much quantum mechanics? If so, have you ever thought about the possibility of an all-powerful God being able to manipulate the the universe on a large scale via the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum (that is, if we accept the Copenhagen interpretation as true?) Really opens up all sorts of possibilities. I'm not going to lie, I was borderline agnostic/atheist before I studied quantum and had an astrophysics teacher who knew what she was talking about when it came to modern physics and the different interpretations of quantum mechanics. If you ask me, there's no better statement of the possibility of a higher power than the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Anyone know enough about QM to add anything? Anyone want me to explain what I'm talking about?

Mark, what you're talking about is Eugenics, the belief that evolution can be controlled via artificial selection. It was pretty big in the 20's and 30's, until the aftermath of WWII.

Admin wrote:Just a question, has anyone here studied much quantum mechanics? If so, have you ever thought about the possibility of an all-powerful God being able to manipulate the the universe on a large scale via the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum (that is, if we accept the Copenhagen interpretation as true?) Really opens up all sorts of possibilities. I'm not going to lie, I was borderline agnostic/atheist before I studied quantum and had an astrophysics teacher who knew what she was talking about when it came to modern physics and the different interpretations of quantum mechanics. If you ask me, there's no better statement of the possibility of a higher power than the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Anyone know enough about QM to add anything? Anyone want me to explain what I'm talking about?

Mark, what you're talking about is Eugenics, the belief that evolution can be controlled via artificial selection. It was pretty big in the 20's and 30's, until the aftermath of WWII.

idk much about QM, you should enlighten us, but not so it goes over my head.

and im gonna be the next hitler. jk jk

Markerscope1 [SOTHG] wrote:

Admin wrote:Just a question, has anyone here studied much quantum mechanics? If so, have you ever thought about the possibility of an all-powerful God being able to manipulate the the universe on a large scale via the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum (that is, if we accept the Copenhagen interpretation as true?) Really opens up all sorts of possibilities. I'm not going to lie, I was borderline agnostic/atheist before I studied quantum and had an astrophysics teacher who knew what she was talking about when it came to modern physics and the different interpretations of quantum mechanics. If you ask me, there's no better statement of the possibility of a higher power than the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Anyone know enough about QM to add anything? Anyone want me to explain what I'm talking about?

Mark, what you're talking about is Eugenics, the belief that evolution can be controlled via artificial selection. It was pretty big in the 20's and 30's, until the aftermath of WWII.

idk much about QM, you should enlighten us, but not so it goes over my head.

and im gonna be the next hitler. jk jk

Eh, I'll type it up tomorrow. It's too late to think right now haha.

agreed. goodnight.

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour, nuff' said.

You could have at least spelled Savior correctly geez.. jk jk How did you come to this conclusion?

NJSC wrote:You could have at least spelled Savior correctly geez.. jk jk How did you come to this conclusion?

probably through family like most religions are passed on.

{ACE}Steve-o wrote:Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour, nuff' said.

+ 1,000,000,000

NJSC wrote:You could have at least spelled Savior correctly geez.. jk jk How did you come to this conclusion?

lol. woops. i had been at work for 15 hours, cut me some slack. I came to this conclusion because i have seen Him work in my life in many ways and have felt the Holy Spirit lead me in many ways before. Look around, and tell me there is no God. This world is to full of beauty for it to just have appeared. God has done way to much in my life for there to not be one.

I used to lead worship at my youth group. There is no greater feeling like the feeling of being immersed in a deep spiritual state of being. Tuning everything out, you can really feel the Holy Spirit in you. Incredible feeling.

Markerscope1 [SOTHG] wrote:

NJSC wrote:You could have at least spelled Savior correctly geez.. jk jk How did you come to this conclusion?

probably through family like most religions are passed on.

Not really. I always went to a Christian church from a young age, but i was very curious about God when i was younger. After reading the bible and getting saved, i don't know where i would be without God. I can't imagine the feeling of not knowing Him. I really would have a hard time in life if my God wasn't in mine.

{ACE}Steve-o wrote:

Markerscope1 [SOTHG] wrote:

NJSC wrote:You could have at least spelled Savior correctly geez.. jk jk How did you come to this conclusion?

probably through family like most religions are passed on.

Not really. I always went to a Christian church from a young age, but i was very curious about God when i was younger. After reading the bible and getting saved, i don't know where i would be without God. I can't imagine the feeling of not knowing Him. I really would have a hard time in life if my God wasn't in mine.

I've been Cristian ever since I was 3 years old. Always read the bible and go to church. Can't see why my parents stopped going to church but I have been wanting to go back for years and never got my wish. I have been cursed and shall I cast it on a angel to get rid of the madness and curse itself. Never anyone understood my will in it and never will, personality, faith in Jesus Christ, 2333 BC. Never anyone shall talk about it nor find out because it makes bad things happen,
this paragraph shall not receive any questions.
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---C

I personally do not go to Church but I got saved when I was 13 years old. Kneeling by my bed, I asked Jesus to come into my Heart. It was an awesome experience.
To me, Church is a fashion show, Gossip party, Judgment, get all up in yo business place. And the last time I went to a Baptist church, all I heard the whole time is "Your going to Hell" come outa the Preachers mouth. I do NOT believe you have to go to church to go to Heaven. I thank God every day for Sacrificing his son so that my pathetic butt can go to heaven.

Q-bald wrote:I personally do not go to Church but I got saved when I was 13 years old. Kneeling by my bed, I asked Jesus to come into my Heart. It was an awesome experience.
To me, Church is a fashion show, Gossip party, Judgment, get all up in yo business place. And the last time I went to a Baptist church, all I heard the whole time is "Your going to Hell" come outa the Preachers mouth. I do NOT believe you have to go to church to go to Heaven. I thank God every day for Sacrificing his son so that my pathetic butt can go to heaven.

The Apostle Paul says "Do not neglect the assembling of yourselves together." While I would not argue that you aren't going to be forgiven by God of all your transgressions after you leave this world, there is still advantages to sharing time with other Christians. Also "fashion show, gossip party, judgment, and getting all up in yo business" is how it is in the world, so what's the difference if you are just hearing about Jesus more. Of course, I am be facetious, but seriously the Church (yes capitol "C" as in the Body of Christ) is made up of pathetic butts (as you so eloquently put it ). Granted we are supposed to rise above this world, but people struggle with that.

Coby I am not sure what you are talking about being cursed or casting things on angels or the personality thing. Could you please explain?

Also, it dependso n the church thart you go to. I have been to dramatic churches and churches that gossip. then i have been to churches that do nothing but welcome you. It usually is not the church in a whole that should be labeled "gossip, dramatic, etc..." but some of the people that make up the Church. Those people that cause drama and gossip in church need to be there just as much as every other person IMO. Church is what you make of it, and what God make's of it for you.

Oh my goodness that is SO very true. People are very quick to feel ostracized in many Churches, and I will admit that Baptists tend to be the 'judgemental, turn-or-burn' type. However, my Church (very Baptist now, understand) prides itself (the good kind of pride) in being one of the few which is not like that. Our mission statement is actually to just welcome and warm anyone who comes through the doors, and I have never heard any sermon or anyone say anything relating to a feel of casting someone away or making fun of them.

Also, as NJSC said, it is very true about the congregation of the Church. I was raised in Church, but around 7th-9th grade I really just kind of lost out and didn't know any more than "Jesus died for me". It was in my 10th grade year when I truly began to understand things, and it wasn't until my late 11th grade year (earlier this year) that I believe I actually started walking in a Christian path. Since then, I can't say everything has gone right (I am human), but things have grown much better. The point of this is to say that, since 7th or 8th grade (for me), my parents have not gone to Church. And I noticed a direct correlation between that and my family's circumstances. Before we were very blessed, but since, my dad has caught too many bad breaks to count. He remained very strong in the faith, quiet times, prayer, etc., but he didn't have that fellowship which we all need.

As to anyone who says they have felt terrible when they visited a Church, I'll come pick you up to come to mine on a Sunday morning. If you live really far away though, I might be able to help you find a good Church in the area.

All that said, it is true you won't be denied passage to heaven just because you didn't go to Church. And you shouldn't go to a Church which has an improper fellowship, because then these people are dragging you from your faith as much as they are guiding you with it.