Everything 40K Thread

Quex wrote:I almost got into 40k a while back.

My friend convinced me to start playing, and I eventually got about 1000 pts worth of Tau. Unfortunately, my friend moved about a week after I got everything assembled. That was about 3-4 years ago. Every other person I know has no clue what it even is, so I never reopened the box that has all of my Tau in it. I did get into the lore though, and have played the Dawn of War games to death.

The feel free to contribute to the discussions. We would love to have another person's opinion because Paul and I can talk 40k to death.

I would agree on the outcome of the battle, the Tyranid Forces would win mainly because they would have an almost unoffended HiveShip pumping out reinforcements, none the less their ability to adapt their bodies to better suit their need in battle. The orks would be incredibly implacable, but the Tyranids would only need time. The Orks simply don't have the naval capability to take down the scores of HiveShips that would come from Leviathan. The only thing I disagree about is that the Tyranids would be utterly devastated. Remember, the Tyranids would be devouring the planets in the Ork System, using them to create hordes upon hordes of new and improved Tyranids, while it isn't known how exactly the Tyranid SpaceCraft come into being, it is possible they are created via the planetary devouring, so it is possible that the Tyranid Naval capacity could also be replenished and even bolstered. The floor is open to your next question, if you dont have anything to dispute about my comment.

I understand your point, however, I believe that the Tyranids would indeed be very low on numbers after a prolonged battle with the Orks because they are ferocious fighters and don't take no for an answer. I do not believe the Tyranids could come out of such a confrontation at full capacity, even if they were able to devour the worlds because they would have to pay dearly for every world they gained. You must also keep in mind that Tyranids have a number of overminds that act in concert with the Norn Queen to relay her orders to everyone. The Orks could destroy each of these "relay nodes" and cause untold carnage amongst the Tyranid ranks. I have this information from an joint Inquisitorial Deathwatch and Mantis Marine engagement on the world of Herodian IV. They discovered that the Tyranids actually have "underqueens" if you will, and they in turn relay the orders to the ground forces. So even though the Tyranids have the capability to reproduce and adapt quickly, I believe they would not get the best of the ground encounters. Also, you can never count an Ork Navy out of the picture. Their ships may be primitive but they are powerful and effective. There is every possibility that they could destroy a number of the hive ships, which would cripple the Tyranids ability to reproduce and refit. Never count Orks out until they are dead, and maybe not even then. Especially when they are cornered. Orks have been known to keep fighting even after their brains were dead because their bodies had yet to realize that it shouldn't be working. Also, never count out the Ork leadership, because the Ork warlords are highly intelligent, and have often developed significant psychic capablities, as was shown by Captain Octavious (seconded by the Imperial Fists) along with Librarian Ashok (seconded by the Angels Sanguine) and a Deathwatch killteam. Orks are always a threat. So I stand firm in my belief that the Tyranids could be mopped up by the Imperium after the Tyranids finally finished the Orks off.


For my next question, it's pretty simple, but do you believe that "Rogue" Inquisitor Eisenhorn is still alive? (The Rogue part is in quotations because he did not betray the Imperium, but he has been known to use imprisoned demons to subjugate his enemies as well as other forces of Chaos. His methods are unorthodox, possibly heretical, but he is most definitely still staunchly loyal to the Emperor and the Imperium.)

I never read the Eisenhorn series...

Aggressor Dog wrote:I never read the Eisenhorn series...

And now you suck... lol, I still love you. I don't know what to ask next then. Do you have anything?

This one is more for the people who don't really know much about 40K. I'm not sure who else reads this, but idk, its more of a common knowledge question.

Here is the scenario, as it plays out time and time again. The taint of chaos is detected on an Imperial planet. The seed of chaos is determined to be so latently intwined with the planet that the populus, even though the majority may be untainted and innocent, and mostly unaware, that the Inquisition decides to completely eradicate the planet. Is this the right thing to do? Should more measures be taken to save the populus?

I have actually thought about this very question time and time again, and I always come to the same conclusion. No, the Inquisition does absolutely the right thing in destroying the planet even though many members of the populous may not be tainted. The Inquisition would be risking the exposure of too many valuable resources to Chaos if they were to try to remove people from the planet before deploying the Exterminatus. They could lose irreplaceable Astartes as well as millions of Imperial Guard. These are unnecessary sacrifices that could be used on the fringes of space or somewhere in the Eye. There is also the risk that a Chaos tainted citizen goes unnoticed amongst all the hustle and bustle while trying to evacuate the planet, and the Inquisition could most definitely not spare the time to Interview every citizen because that would only give Chaos the chance to strengthen its hold on the planet. The Exterminatus is the both the most efficient and effective way to end the Chaos threat. Trying to evacuate the planet would only result in far more casualties than it would to simply destroy the entire planet along with its population.

Agreed, the taint of Chaos is far too stealthy and vastly too dangerous to try and save any planet within its grasp. The Exterminatus is the only rational solution, and although it does result in the lose of innocent lives, the losses that would occur otherwise would be incomperable.

Agreed.

My next question... do you think the Imperium could ever resolve its differences with the Tau and form an alliance that would benefit both species? They are not an overly violent species, nor do they really wish any lasting harm to the Imperium. They simply fight back because the Imperium wants to kill anything that is not human. Do you think such a union would benefit the two species, and do you think it is possible that something like this could ever happen?

I would LOVE to see it happen, however I know that it both can't and won't happen. The humans, even post-heresy, have formed alliances with cooperative alien species that are not too far from human, for example, there have been known temporary alliances between the Humans and the Eldar. The Tau and Imperium could both benefit from eachother's help, it would be a potent force to contend with given the numbers and brute strength of human weapons combined with the precision and frightening power of Tau weaponry. I believe that the Tau would ally with the Imperium, if they saw the Imperium's goals as benefitting the Greater Good, however, the behavior of Humanity has shown time and time again that the Greater Good doesn't seem to be the main concern of Humans (the Heresy, the wars on Terra, the shifting allegiances of outer fringe worlds). The Imperium wouldn't see fit to ally with the Tau, given that they are "hostile aleins". The Imperium, around 2-3K years ago, saw the Tau as such primitive aliens limited to one planet that they completely ignored them, not wanting to spend the resources to eliminate a race of spear weilding blue people. However, their stunning progression in technology and preternatural fighting spirit has lead them to become one of the Imperium's most feared enemies. I believe that a shaky truce COULD be forged, but never a full fledged alliance, ManKind is too headstrong for that. Also, in terms of technicallity, if you had the Tau unite with the Humans, than in tabletop tournaments concerning in-game scenarios you couldn't field a Tau army against Human armies, this would upset scores of Tau players without a doubt, so I don't think itll ever happen.

Here is my question :

Which of the following summoned "Daemons" would win in a fight? The Bloody Handed Avatar of Khane vs. a BloodThirster? I myself have no idea who would best whom.

In my mind, there would be little contest. The Avatar of Khaine is the avatar of a god. The Bloothirster is simply a greater daemon of Khorne, he does not have all the powers of an Eldar god. The Bloodthirster might put up somewhat of a fight, but in the end, he would be defeated by might of a god.

Also, to answer my question, I believe that it would benefit both races very much. Can you imagine an Astartes with a set of power armor modified by the Tau? All of their technology with the power of a Space Marine. The might of the Primarchs might once again walk the land. There is so much that could be gained. I think that a tentative alliance would be possible but it is unlikely that humanity would ever trust the Tau. Their discrimination against species that are different is often to innate to be dismissed. There is little chance that humanity at large could get over itself long enough for such an alliance to work. Even though there are some intelligent and insightful people among the Administratum and the Inquisition, there are not enough to change the views of an entire species, especially not one as stubborn as humanity. Even with the alliances that have been seen, such as the ones you mentioned with the Eldar, humans never came to trust the Eldar, they simply thought of them as a tool. Even after it was shown that the Eldar are far more wise, powerful, evolved, and advanced than humanity, the humans still viewed the Eldar as inferior. Humans are a backwards species that go about things from a completely ignorant viewpoint, and that is not likely to change anytime soon.

I will wait to hear your views about the Avatar of Khaine and the Bloodthirster of Khorne before posing the next question.

While the Avatar of Khane is the a god, you must also bear in mind that it is merely an avatar of that god, based on the body of an Eldar Prince. This would limit the power of the God, as he is limited to the body of the eldar prince, although a vastly different and powerful body in comparison to what is was. On the other hand, the BloodThirster is an unchanged full on Daemon, his powers are as is, no restrictions. The god Khane is a vastly powerful being, but his Avatar has no where near the same strength as he actually does.

Aggressor Dog wrote:While the Avatar of Khane is the a god, you must also bear in mind that it is merely an avatar of that god, based on the body of an Eldar Prince. This would limit the power of the God, as he is limited to the body of the eldar prince, although a vastly different and powerful body in comparison to what is was. On the other hand, the BloodThirster is an unchanged full on Daemon, his powers are as is, no restrictions. The god Khane is a vastly powerful being, but his Avatar has no where near the same strength as he actually does.

Somewhat accurate, however, the daemon is limited due to the fact that he is not in the warp. There are some things he could ordinarily do that he cannot in reality. And this battle would never happen in the warp because Khaine would simply destroy the daemon outright, and the matter would be settled. Also, bear in mind that the Avatar of Khaine was created specifically for the purpose of destroying daemons. He has no purpose other than that. That is the only reason he is ever summoned. (Excepting the tabletop game where he can be used anywhere)

Good point, he was only awoken to be used against the Primarch Fulgrim when it was realized that the sword belted to his side was an arcane weapon of Chaos. I still love the fact that Fulgrim single handedly destroyed the Avatar, literally ripping it jaw straight from its head and cutting it in twain, brutal! (then he took down two falcon grav tanks barehanded and destroyed an ancient WraithLord, as well as driving off an extremely powerful Farseer) The Primarchs were truly Gods of the battlefield.

Aggressor Dog wrote:Good point, he was only awoken to be used against the Primarch Fulgrim when it was realized that the sword belted to his side was an arcane weapon of Chaos. I still love the fact that Fulgrim single handedly destroyed the Avatar, literally ripping it jaw straight from its head and cutting it in twain, brutal! (then he took down two falcon grav tanks barehanded and destroyed an ancient WraithLord, as well as driving off an extremely powerful Farseer) The Primarchs were truly Gods of the battlefield.

Especially a Primarch that has been possessed by a full fledged daemon prince. Ordinarily, it is unlikely that he could have done that single-handedly and with such ease, however it does make for a really freaking awesome story. And yes, they were gods on the battlefield. Their might was unparalleled by anything of this universe.

Fulgrim wasnt fully tainted at that point, merely the sword. He used the sword to aid him twice though, once to cripple the WraithLord, and another time to stab through the Avatar.

Here is my question :

Is Leman Russ still alive? What is he doing if so? What would happen upon his return?

Russ is almost certainly still alive. It has been shown that a number of members of the 13th company that went with Russ into the Eye of Terror are still alive. If the wolves still live after ten thousand years of fighting in the Eye, then Russ is more than likely still alive as well. Although the members of the 13th company that have been encountered will not say that he is still alive, they also will not say that he is dead. It is meant to be a mystery for those Wolves remaining on Fenris. They are supposed to have faith in their primarch, that he will return triumphant at the end times, reclaim his spear, and fight for the glory of the Emperor. There is much more credence to this possibility than to the one that Guilliman's wound is slowly healing in stasis. Guilliman is dead, and while it seems a nice fancy to believe that he could be healing, it is rather unlikely unless the Emperor has been able to divert some of his attention from guarding the Eternity Gate to healing Guilliman. It has been shown that on certain occasions, the Emperor does shift a portion of his consciousness away from the Gate and to his loyal subjects. On one such occasion, there was a small company of Imperial guardsmen holding off a horde of Tyranids. For 16 hours, 200 guardsmen held off millions of Tyranids until the Emperor's avenging angels, the Astartes, could come quell the invasion, without losing a single man. When asked about it later, they each replied that they saw the Emperor fighting with them and speaking with them, walking amongst them and telling them to keep fighting, that relief was coming. So it has been shown that the Emperor is able to be in many places at once, and it is possible that he could be healing Guilliman. However, I digress, back to Russ. It is, in fact, highly probably that Russ is still alive. Primarchs are hard to kill, and there are few who could match Russ in power and ability. Sanguinius is likely the only Primarch who could match Russ in martial prowess. Russ is just plain hard to kill.

One particularly interesting quote is this... "Listen closely Brothers, for my life's breath is all but spent. There shall come a time far from now when our Chapter itself is dying, even as I am now dying, and our foes shall gather to destroy us. Then my children, I shall listen for your call in whatever realm of death holds me, and come I shall, no matter what the laws of life and death forbid. At the end I will be there. For the final battle. For the Wolftime."

The veracity of this quote is without question, however, it may not be that Russ truly meant he was dying. He may have meant only that he was dying in spirit or something of that nature. What he truly meant will never be known until he returns, however, even if Russ is dead, which I think unlikely, he promises that he will return, and Russ does not make promises that he cannot keep. Even if he is dead, he will find a way to return to his Chapter.

If he is still alive, he and the 13th company still travel the Eye in search of the Thousand Sons in order to destroy them and whatever other forms of Chaos hellspawn they might encounter. It is undeniable that the 13th company is still at work in the Eye and it logically follows that Russ still runs with them. Russ' quote seems contradictory in that he claimed he was dying, and yet he took a full company with him into the Eye. It seems illogical to think that he would take a company with him to die. I personally believe that he simply meant that he was dying in soul as long as Magnus was still alive because he felt that he had failed the Emperor.

When the Space Wolves chapter has hit its lowest point, Russ will return. He will resurrect the chapter amidst fire and carnage. They will rise again, in the end times, and he will once again lead them against Chaos.

I believe if Russ returned to the Imperium it would be quite a momentus occasion. His leading ability as a Primarch and his tactical prowess would instill great faith in every citizen of the Imperium, as well as untold fervor in every mighty Astartes. This kind of moral boost would benefit humanity greatly, they need it in the gloomy and doom filled stage of history they are stuck in.

The floor is yours for the next question.

Do you think it is possible that there is an STC that explains how to create Astartes geneseed? And if so, what do you think would happen if it were found? Who would you think would be the best person to obtain DNA from in order to create new space marines?

I don't believe that there is an STC on Astartes gene-seed. STCs are more for mechanical things, like Titans, space craft, colonies, tanks, etc. The Geneseed of the Astartes has and always will be an extremely closely guarded secret. I doubt that the Emperor, even back before the heresy, would allow for such a valuable and precious formula for creating the pinacle of battlefield warriors to be stored an something so easily recreatable as an STC. However, if there is one, te finding of it would result in the mass production of space marines no doubt. The Imperium would definitly see fit to do that, however, if the forces of Chaos were to capture it they would use it as well for sheer mass production of space marines. The Legion sized space marine elements might even arise again, seeing as though it would be impossible to simply create more and more chapters to compensate for the sudden influx of spacemarines (even if t does go against the Codex Astartes). The best hands for it to fall into honestly would be the Inquisition. I would trust them to be able to determine the best course of action to take with it. They might even see fit to destroy it all together, I would trust their decision with it, seeing as though that sort of STC would be of unimaginable value to all races.

Also, I believe that the best person to take DNA from would of course be Guilleman, they could take DNA from his body in stasis, seeing as though his Geneseed is unflawed it would be the most stable geneseed to take. But they could take DNA from all of the Primarchs, seeing as though DNA would be left on their relics, like their armour, weapons, even thrones (in the future I can imagine how easily they could recover aeons old DNA from things that the Primarchs merely grazed)
Next question :

What is a Space Marines greatest strength? His weaponry? His Armour? His training? His iron will? His faith in the Emperor? His physique? Ill wait for you o reply before I go on with my own reply.

His faith in the All Mighty God Emperor of Mankind is what makes a Space Marine the most powerful soldier the Imperium has to offer. His unshakable faith allows the Astartes to stand firm in the face of unimaginable odds. His faith allows him to perform feats that no ordinary mortal could ever perform, not to say that the Astartes are anything close to ordinary, but their faith is what makes them extraordinary. A normal soldier often experiences doubts on the battlefield, but a Space Marine will never stop, never falter, never retreat, not for anything or anyone. Their faith is never shaken.

Agreed, I can't really put it any better than that. The floor is yours for the next question.

I can't think of a question. Feel free to post one if you think of something.

*GASP!* Have Paul and Austin run out of Warhammer topics to talk about?

Quick someone lock it!
Just kidding. Is this a game where you go and paint your own figures and stuff?